207: 6-Figure Tech Careers for Vets: The Real Truth

From Military to Cyber
===

[00:00:00] In high school, what did you think that you wanted to do with your life? So maybe a month into my sen- yeah. I didn't know what I wanted to do, so I went online and I put in applications for the Marine Corps and for the Navy. And, uh, yeah, the Marine Corps snatched me up. When we talk about you getting out of the Marine Corps- Mm-hmm

did you have an idea of what you wanted to do once you got out? Honestly, this is how I got my first job out of the Marine Corps. I had a job before I signed my DD 214, and the way I got that job is a friend of mine told his manager that he knew a network engineer who was just as good as him. And, uh, lo and behold, like, she called me and she was like, "Yo, he's saying that you're, you know, just as good as he is, and we need somebody on the team."

This is exactly how the interview went. She was like, "Do you want the job?" And I was like, "Yeah." And she was like, "It's yours." What do you think the top things would be that you would tell the newcomers who are, whether they are already in IT or they're trying to pivot, what should they learn? Yeah. [00:01:00] So, um, the first thing I would tell anybody is- Welcome back to the Techial Talk podcast.

I'm your host HD, and you know, we ain't did a guest interview in a while, but today we have the lovely Myra Marbley. She's joining us all the way from VA, basically from LA. But she came to kick it with us today, talking about her military journey and how she has got, uh, came from networking to cybersecurity.

But first things first, if you got in the video and you already like what you see, go ahead, hit the like button, subscribe, and you could become a member or join the Patreon to support the show. Now, uh, how was Black As Tech? Black As Tech was dope. Um, like I was telling you before, um, it was my first conference.

Um, my favorite part was the, uh, pitch competitions. I just, I, yeah, it, it was so dope. I feel like Black people are some of the most creative, innovative people on this planet. Um, [00:02:00] but yeah, lots of networking, uh, lots of partying, as you can hear in my voice. Um, but overall a, a great experience. 10 out of 10 recommend.

Tell a friend to tell a friend to tell a friend. Perfect. Um, do you think that you'll be going to AfroTech?

I don't know. I, I heard AfroTech is Black As Tech on steroids, and I don't know if I have the, uh, social capacity for AfroTech. But we'll see. We'll see. Isn't it, like, next month or something? Or is it July? No, I think it's November. Oh, okay. Yeah, it's normally, like, in November, so I, I think you got plenty of time, uh, if you decide that you wanna go or not.

Yeah. What about you? You gonna go? Only if it's feasible, 'cause companies... So back in the boom before Trump got in office- Mm-hmm companies they mind paying for diversity, equity, inclusion type of stuff. Right. So for example, my only time going was [00:03:00] when I worked for JPMC, which it's like the headquarters is probably like five minutes that way.

Mm-hmm. And, um, I just said, I gave them some BS about, "Hey, I wanna go meet people like me and tell them how good JPMC is." Right. And they sent, they probably sent about like 60, 70 people to AfroTech. Mm-hmm. Um, but since then companies have had the budgets, but they've had to find a way, how does it tie into your job for you to go?

So for me, a lot of times it hasn't been a lot of breakout sessions that I could put down and say sessions and what I'm gonna learn and how will it make me better at my job, versus like I was telling you earlier about if I say I wanna go to a Splunk Conf, I use Splunk, they have different sessions. I got- 'cause like when I went to Splunk Conf, I had to write up and tell them about the stuff I experienced and why I think it'd be good for the team.

I think it's really just some compliance BS. Right. Right. But it's hard to do that there 'cause a lot of times AfroTech back in the day, they wouldn't release the speakers or the breakout sessions until like the week, like couple weeks before. So, but, um, if I could [00:04:00] probably get like media credentials and I can line up like a lot of like interviews and stuff like that- Right

probably it, it had to be worthwhile for me because it's, you know, it's a good time. It's good. I think the one thing you probably enjoyed at Black is Tech is like you was around, you was finally in the majority. Finally. So I think- Yes ... that's what like you probably enjoyed the most. Um, and that's definitely what I enjoyed the most when I went, to be honest.

Definitely. It was so many, um, I think that was, yeah, that, that was up there on the list for me, too. Um, just being around so many people that look like me, that's doing the same thing as me, if not more, you know? And, uh, everyone was just so eager to learn and just be in that space, so I, I think that was, that was dope as well.

Perfect. So let me go ahead and just we'll get right into it. Okay. Who is Myra? Ooh, okay. Um, Myra is a child of God, first and foremost. Um, I [00:05:00] am a mother, a friend. Um,

uh, the list goes on, but yeah. I'm, I'm Myra. I'm funny. I'm funny as hell. If someone was to ask me, "What is something you, like, know about yourself?" I know that I'm funny. Um, yeah. And I'm kind. Okay. Yeah. Finna draw it outta you a little bit. Okay. So let's talk about young Myra, like maybe like senior year going into like what do you plan on wanting to do after you graduate high school?

So in high school, what did you think that you wanted to do with your life? Um, if I'm being honest, in high school I had no idea what I wanted to, to do in life. I f- feel like my mom just was, um- Just stewarding my life to see what it is I wanted to do. Like you said, pulling it out of me. Um, I worked as, I started off as a pool aide at the pool during summers.

Um, and then, [00:06:00] uh, one summer I was like, "Let me, let me test out..." I became a lifeguard while in high school. Um, I, I really just didn't know what I wanted to do, and then was, like, coming up on the end of my senior year, maybe, like, seven, eight months before I was getting ready to graduate, so maybe a month into my senior year.

My mom was like, "Myra, the time is coming up where kids are, like, figuring out what they wanna do. Um, it's, it's that time." And I didn't know what I wanted to do, so I went online and I put in applications for the Marine Corps and for the Navy. And, uh, yeah, the Marine Corps snatched me up. Nice. Yeah. Before we, before we get into the Marine Corps- Uh-huh

I wanna ask you, 'cause you're from LA. Yes. Uh, you know, what, what, what neighborhood you- Did, did people say, uh, "Where your, where your grandma stay?" Or, uh, did they ask you any of that stuff when you was riding around? Like what... You know. Um, yes and no. But, um, so I grew up on 59th and Crenshaw. Um, uh, we stayed over there 'til about second [00:07:00] grade.

Um, and then I moved to Moreno Valley. There was, like, this big migration. It was like everyone found out about this new city, opened it up, it was cheap. Um, so yeah, everyone moved to Moreno Valley. And then I wanna say, like, halfway into my freshman year, I moved back to Los Angeles. Okay. Um, and then, uh, I ended up going to school in another city, which is Hawthorne.

It's, like, one of the outer cities. Um, and then yeah, I graduated, graduated from there. Okay. I'm just trying to think about, like- Yeah ... a whole bunch of stupid stuff you talking. Like I know, like, uh, what's Mon- Montoya name? Yeah. His name is Montoya. Uh-huh. He was from Gardenia? Gardena. Gardena. There we go.

Listen, she know I know this stuff, I'm just messing it up. Uh- ... but yeah, he, I thought about that. Then I'm stupid enough, I posted on my story a picture of, uh, Elroy, and, um, what's Craig daddy name? I forgot what his- Oh, you're talking about from Friday. I forgot what his daddy name is, but, uh, Willie. Willie.

Uh-huh. And you know, I put on the caption, "It was cold that night." [00:08:00] And so I thought about, like, how far is, like, Rancho Cucamonga away from you? Oh, it, um... Ooh, don't quote me, but, um, look, friends and family, if y'all watching this, y'all know I'm, I'm far removed, just a little bit. But, um, maybe, like, an hour. No, from LA, no.

Out- LA's gonna be a little bit longer than that, but yeah, you're thinking about the whole Friday, you driving out to the, to the boonies in, uh, Rancho Cucamonga, but- Yeah, 'cause he like- Yeah ... uh, daddy like, "Taste the air. Taste the air." "Taste good, don't it?" Uh, but yeah. Something wrong with you. No, but I mean, that, I mean, that's a iconic show.

It, it is. You... Movie. Movie, you right. Yeah, yeah. Movie. 'Cause I, I, um, I remember I posted a while back when I was like, uh, I think I, I think it was, like, when I got my first tech job in, uh- In Texas. And I had, when, um, Ed Ward said, "You know, I never said I'd be the type of nigga that moves away when I got a little money."

I got my check and I was gone. I had posted that. Uh, that's, [00:09:00] that's, like, funny. I don't know. Yeah. All right, before we get into, like, the other nitty-gritty- ... what's your favorite Friday? Um, Friday after next. Really? Yes. I am a boy, Damon. Okay. You ain't a pa, you a nigga that steals. Yes. Yeah. Um, let's see. Give me a quick section.

All right. Um, now, tell us about your time in the Marine Corps. Like, how long did you serve? Uh, okay. Um, I did 13 and a half years. Okay. [00:10:00] Thirteen and a half years, yeah. I joined straight out of high school. I mean, like, when I tell you they snatched me up, they snatched me up. I graduated on a Thursday, and I left to boot camp that Monday.

Okay. I was out of there. And where did you end up getting stationed first? Yuma, Arizona was my first duty station. Hmm. Yeah, yeah. So, um, I guess we can... We're good. Yeah. Um, so Yuma, Arizona was my first duty station. Um, but joining the Marine Corps, I got admin, so I was, like, administrative 0111, uh, for about, like, the first four years.

Um, and then I ended up lat moving to become a field wireman, so I did that for some time. And then that was... Yeah, so I did, I was a field wireman. And then I wanna say, don't quote me, but I think it was, like, 2017 maybe, the Marine Corps did this thing, [00:11:00] uh, called the Force Modernization. So pretty much the way they put it to us, it was like, "Look, y'all MOS is changing.

Either you wanna go, you want to work on, um, network, which is switches and routers, or you wanna be in the quad comm working on servers." So, um, a lot of people chose networking. I actually didn't choose. Some- The gunny that was over me at the time, she, like, picked my, picked it for me. And which at the time I was mad 'cause I wanted to go servers, but I now see, like, how everything just led me to where I am, uh, today.

But yeah, so I went, um, I went network, and, uh, it was crash course after crash course. We got our Sec+ in, like, a week's time. Um- Yeah.

So ironically, I actually worked with like... So my first IT job was working for, at the time it was CSC. Mm-hmm. Now they are owned [00:12:00] by GDIT, but it was a lot of retired Air Force people there. Mm-hmm. And I heard stories about, yeah, we all had the crams and we got the SEC Plus super fast. Yeah. And I think that's where that culture of Air Force people and anybody in military pushing for SEC Plus so fast.

Like- Yes ... uh, my mentor at the time in 2013, he found out what my major was. He was like, "Go get the Security Plus." The funny thing is though, before that, I never knew anything about certs. Like, I was in school and they wasn't telling us about certs. Yeah. So I was actually thankful that I got it, but after I got it, I still didn't really have any experience, like talking about, so I had to start a help desk.

But I just say, like, that's one of the things, like, I think, like, the military, of course, they pay for it, so that's why most people you're gonna meet in the military are gonna have a SEC Plus. Without a doubt. They might got a A Plus. Mm-hmm. They might have Network Plus. Mm-hmm. And you know, they be like, "Hey, yeah, I got it."

But, and the crazy thing is back then, all you almost done needed was the cert and they would give you the job. Mm-hmm. So... But you know, ironically, I didn't get [00:13:00] my-- I didn't get SEC Plus until I got stationed in Quantico, like 2018. Before I even got, um, SEC Plus, I guess because I was at, like a, a regular unit- Mm-hmm

they were pushing for us to get CCNA. So I was going through, like CCNA crash courses. Um, well, first they put us on like a, it, it was called like a, it was like security networking course. It was like some course they put together. But then once you completed that one, then we went for like CCNA, and that's when CCNA was doing the two-part test.

Mm-hmm. So, um, I, I went through the course. I, um, got all the knowledge from there, but I didn't take my CCNA then. Um, I just, I just took what I knew and, and took it back to my unit, 'cause nobody wants to be taking two tests. Um, but yeah, a lot of it was like crash course because it was like they were just trying to get everybody to where they need them to be.

You know, and in that military mindset, mind frame, you ain't failing nothing. You better not fail. Like, yeah. Yeah. So even [00:14:00] back then, did you know what you wanted to do with your networking career, or you just decided just to, to choose it or whatever? No, I was, I was the one following the crowd. Like, what is it that I need to do in order to be successful in this new MOS that we have?

Because, you know, I was going against people who had been field wiremen for, like, their whole career. I was admin first, so I had no type of knowledge in this field at all. Okay. Yeah, that's like most people. Mm-hmm. And so throughout those 13 years, like, what did you do? Was it, like, fairly simple? Did it kinda, like, stay the same?

Did much change or, or what was it like? Um- It stayed the same for the most part. I think with, um, networking, the way we had things set up in the Marine Corps, it was like plug and play. Like, you can, you can configure your, your Dales and your switches, you know, back home and then, you know, once you get into the field you're just, you know, plugging and playing.

Okay. And then- Yeah, so, yeah. [00:15:00] So, like, how... And I'm, I'm just asking these different questions 'cause for all the military people. Uh-huh. Like, was it hard? Was it like a learning curve? Like, how did you, you feel like doing that job? Like when it, I guess I'll say when do you feel like, I don't wanna say belong because sometimes you never feel like you belong, right?

Mm-hmm. But when did you feel like you at least, not mastered your job, but got good at your job in the military? If I'm being honest, I would say that it got easier once I applied myself. Once I got out of that mindset of like, "I'm being forced to do this, I don't wanna do it, I don't know what this is," it was, it was when I really started, like, taking it serious that it was like, "Okay, I can learn this and I'm pretty damn good at it," you know?

So, um, I guess to answer your question, it's like just when I got it in my own way. Okay. Yeah. So, so in the military, I don't know how rank and stuff, all that kind of work, like how did your job and everything else tie into, [00:16:00] like, you getting, like, promotions or ranking up? Like, how does, how does that work?

'Cause I'm, I'm, I'm presuming a lot when I say this, but, um, you didn't have to go, like, to war or anything, right? Your stuff was strictly just, like, IT- Right ... networking stuff, right? Uh-huh. Uh-huh. So, like, yeah, how do, how does that work when you, how do you rank up when you are just, like, you have, like, a job but it's in the, the Marine Corps?

Um, so if I can remember correctly, 'cause it's, it's been a minute. But, um, you have, like, your PFT that you take. You have your CFT. You have your, um, fitness reports that you... And your fitness report is pretty much, um, your... Think of it like your manager writing you up for the, the whole year. It, um, about, like, what you did, how you compare to the other people on your teams, how you compare to the people that they've previously, previously graded.

Mm-hmm. Um, and then, like, promotions and all that, that comes from, like, headquarters Marine Corps. I hope I'm explaining all of this right- ... 'cause I'm so far removed from this stuff. But, um, it's a accumulation of, of [00:17:00] multiple things. If that makes sense. Okay. Okay. And, and so I know, like I said, we talked earlier, like I'm, we're definitely not finna act like you're at a job interview, right?

But, like, what... And I'm, I was like, okay, so around the timeframe, I guess, when did you get into the Marine Corps to versus, like, when you get out? What's that, what's that year timeframe, like, when you started? Uh, I joined in 2008. Okay, 2008. And then so 13 years, that's what? 2021? Yep. Okay. December, 2021. Got it.

Okay, cool. So you, 13 years in the Marine Corps. Mm-hmm. Um, what type of... I guess, like were you touching, was everything like hardware, software? Like, uh, what were you doing when it came to the networking side of like, you know? Or I just do it like this, typical like if you can remember- Mm-hmm ... typical day in the life of like just stuff like you would probably be doing when you were working doing networking for the Marines.[00:18:00]

Yeah. Um, well, when I f- when I first got into it, I w- to the networking side of things, I was a corporal. Um, but most days, 'cause like I said, a lot of this stuff is plug and play. Mm-hmm. So when we show up to work, I mean, yeah, we have our PT in the morning, whatever, going to work. Um, because everything is already set up, we would like, our NCOs would just be messing with us like the remaining of the days.

Like, they would like do a simulate a, a CAT5 cut or, you know, take a configuration out of the, um, out of the switch and, and it'd be like, "Okay, something's wrong with this switch. You guys need to go figure it out, and you're not going home until you figure it out." So it was, it was a lot of that type of, uh, learning and like learning from each other.

Okay. Now since you said you came in in 2008, like how was that? 'Cause that's like the... So I remember, like I said, I was a... When Obama got sworn [00:19:00] in, I think I might have been a, I think I was a junior at the time. Yeah, so like he got sworn in '09. Yeah, so I was a junior at the time. However, um, that still was a time when we was rough in this depression and everything else like.

And how were tensions military-wise then working doing networking? 'Cause uh, I got a client and, um, I was texting him. He was like, "Man, my bad for not getting back to you." He, um, I think he served in the military or some whatever, but he works in San Antonio, but he has like I think a job on base. He's like, "Man, we've really been busy with all this Iran stuff or whatever."

So like did you face anything like that? No. Um, like I said, when I joined in 2008, I was admin. Okay. I was, um, 0111, I was, I worked in the section called separations, so I was doing like the DD 214s and then the orders that, um, pretty much say like, "Hey, you're separated. This is how long you did X, Y, and Z.

This is where you're going. This is where your house is," you know, [00:20:00] uh, that type of stuff. But, so I didn't, I didn't cross over to this side until like 2012, but even then I was in a s- a student status, so I was away from like an actual unit. I was like in a schoolhouse, so I was being treated like a, like a, a brand new Marine coming in, going to school all over again.

Okay. Like to the MOS school. Okay. So doesn't it take, and like I said, I'm wrong, I'm a civilian here, but- Mm-hmm ... don't it take like, what is it, like 20 years to like retire from the military? Yeah. Yeah. So like, did you- I knew that was coming Yeah, so what made you not wanna go to 2028? I was done, okay? I was done, sir, done.

Um, I think, you know, once you hit a s- a certain rank, it just, it changes. The politics of it is different. Um, you know, and I guess for me, like I just, I knew that if I stayed in any longer, I wasn't gonna make it. Like I, I wasn't gonna [00:21:00] make it. And then my last duty station was on, um, Quantico. I worked at the, uh, Marine Corps Cyber Operations Group.

It's called MCOC. Um, like one day you have a Mar- and I was, I was a little stern as a staff sergeant, not gonna lie. Um, but you know, one day you got this PFC sitting next to you calling you Staff Sergeant Marvely. Next day they walk in, they hired on with LIDO, so I'm saying, "What's up, Myra?" Hmm. Making six figures.

So PFC is private first class, right? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. And so you was like, "Hold on, how y'all getting all this bread?" And- No, not, not so much that because I, I knew that, um, no matter what I chose to do, I would need to look at the long run of it, right? Like I, I wasn't one to like, "Oh, let me... Oh, I heard I can make this amount of money.

Uh, let me go ahead and do it," because honestly it was scary getting out, especially as a staff sergeant. Like, um, me and my, me and my homeboys talk about it all the time, like some people that we knew that got out, they got out and became bums. Like, it was like, we was like, "This cannot [00:22:00] happen to us. Like, we can't, we can't be those ones," you know?

So, um, y- yeah. And so, yeah. I'm glad you said that. So to the current people that are currently in the military- Mm-hmm ... serving our country, how important is it for them to have a plan on getting out? It is very important. I say don't do anything until you have a plan. Th- yeah. Good. There's, there's so many resources.

There, there are so many resources for, um, military members especially. I think this generation has access to a lot of stuff, too, you know? So, um, definitely make sure you have a plan and not just a plan like, "Oh, I'm gonna do X, Y, and Z." Like, there, it needs to be like executable plans. Like what is that acronym for like when you're planning something out, it needs to be, uh, feasible like t- like time me- you know what I'm saying?

Like, you get what I'm saying? I don't, but- ... I'm just nodding along. It's like when you [00:23:00] have a, when you have a plan, it needs to align with, um, like you need to... Attainable goal. Um, a- Okay ... a, a time, like it needs to be a good timeframe. Like you can't say, "Oh, I wanna get SET Plus," and then have it like a two-year time span.

You sh- it shouldn't take you two years to get SET Plus. You know what I'm saying? Were you able to do the SkillBridge program? Um, I wasn't, but I, I do know people who did it. I do know people who did it. Okay. How, so is it different based on what branch you're in or is it, does it kinda all work the same?

on how you wanna, if you wanna get into SkillBridge Uh, if I'm being honest, it all depends on your unit. Your unit has to say like, um, "Yeah, we can afford to, to lose this person for these couple months while they transition out." And it just depends on the ranks. I know, uh, SkillBridge for the unit that I got out from, um, there had to be like another staff NCO inbound in order for another Marine to take off and go, uh, do SkillBridge.

Okay, okay. Perfect, perfect, perfect. Now, [00:24:00] when we talk about... Oops, I hit the wrong angle. When we talk about you getting out of the Marine Corps- Mm-hmm ... did you have an idea of what you wanted to do once you got out, or did you spray and pray? Like, let's talk about you, 'cause did you go from the Marine Corps to a...

Technically, you would've been in a private... Was it a private job, but a public role inside the company or was it just a private company, private job? What do you mean? Like, was I working like a civilian job- Wait, okay ... while I had been a Marine? Let me, let me rephrase it 'cause I probably asked you a crazy stupid question.

It probably don't make sense. Did you get a job at a private company, but working like a public contract, or were you just working a private job, like for a private company in general doing networking? I still don't understand your question, but I'll give you the answer. So what I did was, um, the minute I decided that I was d- like I wasn't gonna re-enlist, I was, I [00:25:00] was gonna be done, that's when I, um, I just made sure I had my, my ducks in my row。 I mean, ducks in my row.

My ducks in a row. Um, I was, I think at the time... So the way I did my degrees, I did them like, I did all three back to back, my associate's, my bachelor's, my master's. When I was getting out, I had just started my associate's, which was like computer, computer networks, uh, general studies. And I was gonna use my, uh, Sec+ 'cause that's what everybody like lean on.

Um, and then, um, so I would, I was like job hunting, right? And then I had a f- a few people I knew who had got out from, um, the Marine Corps and specifically the unit I was at, and like we really kept in touch. So this, and honestly, this is how I got my first job out of the Marine Corps. I had a job before I signed my DD-214.

Like, it was like, "Hey, as soon as your, your, um, your contract with the Marine Corps like terminates, you can, you know, go [00:26:00] onboard with us." And the way I got that job is a friend of mine told his manager that he knew a network engineer who was just as good as him, and, uh, lo and behold, like she called me, and she was like, "Yo, he's saying that you're, you know, just as good as he is, and we need somebody on the team."

And I was like, "Yeah." She was like, "Well, do you want..." This is exactly how the interview, the interview went. She was like, "Do you want the job?" And I was like, "Yeah." And she was like, "It's yours." So- It kinda like, I don't wanna say fell into my lap, but like I definitely, um, was positioned in the... It was one of those things of it's not about what you know, it's about who you know.

Because even stepping into that role, that role was a network engineering role with, um, we're not gonna name the company, but the, uh, government side was, uh, Department of State. So what we were doing was we were standing up the passport, um, sites for, uh, Department of States that when they were like handling their moves and stuff, so like the major ones like Detroit, Atlanta, [00:27:00] Philly.

Um, but yeah, I, and, and I learned more, and I didn't know half of what that job required until I got my, my hands on it. But I do what I had to do and, uh, I stayed there for about eight months, eight, nine months, and then another opportunity presented itself and then I moved on. But yeah, definitely some- somebody, somebody looked out for me.

Yeah, no, it's funny because, um, like you said, it's not what you know, it's who you know. Mm. But my guy, DeJuan Lightfoot always say, "It's not what you know, but who knows you." Yes. Like that's, so that's the biggest one. And honestly, that's the reason why I'm so big on, like I was telling you earlier about LinkedIn, conferences, branding- Yeah

because of that. Like I've had, I've been able to do certain interviews because I've applied to a job, I've mentioned somebody that I'm connected to, and like, "Yo, what's going on? Hey, how you like working at so-and-so?" They're [00:28:00] like, "Man, it's cool." And I'm like, "Oh, word. Yeah, I just applied for so-and-so role."

They was like, "Word. Like, hey, we probably can use you at, at here. Let me go reach out to him. I work with that team." Mm-hmm. But that's 'cause they know me 'cause of everything I've said over the last five, six years- Yeah ... on this camera. Now, when I say that, I'm not telling everybody to go get a camera- Right

and be a content creator. I'm just saying as far as like whether it comes to writing a blog or you- Yeah ... writing insightful posts on LinkedIn, or you putting demos out on LinkedIn from stuff you know how to do, do it. Like please do it. It, it definitely helps out a lot, and sometimes your interviews will be easier because they already know who you are.

And then if somebody who's doing good in the company, like you said, somebody who is just as good as me is looking for a job, it's easier to get hired. Now, I do wanna ask you something before we go more into that other job. Okay. What is a, what is it, DD214? Yeah. What is that? Uh, that is your, uh, whatever branch you served in the military, [00:29:00] that is your, uh, military's life work on one piece of paper pretty mu- It has everything on there, all of the jobs you worked, how long you served, um, the type of discharge you got, and, um, it's needed for a lot of things, uh, once you, once you get out, but that's, that's what that is.

Okay. I hope, I mean, I hope I'm explaining it right, but yeah, DD214. Shout out to my DD 214 blanketers out there. So were you one of the people that was able to, and if this is TMI, you can say TMI. Uh-uh. Were you able to get like your disability and stuff? TMI. No, I'm kidding. Yeah, I was. No, I'm just saying like, uh- Everyone should.

Every- everyone sh- if you did any, any time in the military, like you never... No, I'm not one to push for people like, you know, going VA line and doing all that stuff, but, um, I feel like everyone deserves something. Yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm, uh, [00:30:00] I'm not hating on the next man bag. Yeah. And I'm saying that just because of like, hey, might as well do it while the getting is good because of how they trying to change and do all this other crap that I see the veterans talking about, um, online.

So- Mm ... uh, I definitely say that. So now I'll ask you more about the new job and what were some of the adjustments maybe that you think you had to make from working for the military to working for a non-military company? Ooh.

The biggest thing would be like the work ethic. Like, um, I'll give you an example. Um, I was working on a, a... I hate group projects, by the way. Why? I, I just, I'd rather do it all myself, get it done, and just, you know, turn it in. But, um, [00:31:00] long story short, I was working on a, a project with this, with a, a peer of mine, and we were setting up a server, and I'm not a server person at all.

However, because I'm in the environment that I'm in, I have nothing but space and opportunity to get this thing going. The other individual is a server person. Um, well, we just, we g- we came to a crossroad. Like we just, we couldn't get it going. We couldn't, um, get it working, so we, we just took a break 'cause sometimes, you know, you need to, you know, take your eyes off the screen, you know, X, Y, and Z.

Um, so I step away, uh, go back to my desk or whatever, calling over to the individual, see if we can, uh, you know, get back started on this thing. And, uh, the next thing I know, my manager's calling me like, "Hey, he doesn't wanna work on that particular, you know, project anymore. Um, do you think you can like, you know, finish it?"

So I didn't, I didn't give her no slack at the time or whatever, but I remember [00:32:00] walking back over to his desk because I think I left something. Um, he's over there looking at, um, like auctions and new cars and all kinds of stuff, and I made a comment to him and I said, "So you can sit up here and learn all the specs about a brand new boat.

You got Facebook go- you got all these tabs open, but you mean you can't take the time of day to learn about this-" server or whatever it is we need to get stood up. And- Ha! So I would say, uh, if I'm being honest, my biggest challenge has been, like, my tact. Um, you know, because when speaking to civilians and, you know, if I was in a, in the Marine Corps, that wouldn't have fly.

Like, th- "What? You, you don't wanna do it no more 'cause it's too hard? G- what?" Yeah, no. But, um, so I would say that was, like my biggest transition, um, next to actually, uh, learning what it is my organization needed, [00:33:00] right? Because when I worked at the previous company as a network engineer, it was totally different from what the position of the network engineering for, you know, the, the follow on.

Yeah. So that w- that was it. Yeah. Yeah. I just thought about when you talking about that wouldn't fly in the military, I thought about Major Payne. Yes. Exactly. I thought about that. Exactly. That's one of my favorite movies, by the way. Yeah. Do that. Do that. I mean, obviously you can't, um, do that to, um... And I guess there is a tactful way to get that across, but I, at the time, I just didn't know how else to, like, say it to him.

Yeah. You know, because in my mind it, that's like, it just don't make sense. That's baffling. What? And then not only, not only did he say it, or did, was he... He was able to quit. He was able to say, "I don't wanna do this. It's too... This is outside of my wheelhouse." Yeah. You don't deal with what I can't. I think, but that's one of the things too where, um, I talk about a lot about emotional intelligence- Yes.

Yes ... where [00:34:00] sometimes you didn't have to exercise a lot of emotional intelligence in certain roles or whatever you do. Mm-hmm. So when you have to deal with people, it's like, okay. It's like we have kids, so every kid is different. Mm-hmm. I could talk to this one this certain way. Right. This one this certain way.

Uh-huh. This one this certain way. The same approach you gotta take when you are, whether you're leading or managing people- Right ... because, man, these people will snap or they'll just make it seem like you just so bad, and it's a way just to cover your bases. Well, thank goodness I wasn't his manager, I was his peer.

Right. Right. Right. No, no. But still, there's, there, I totally get, get what you're saying. There is a proper way to get your point across without coming off that way. But I was just giving you an example. That's just how it was in the beginning. I just, I just for the life of me couldn't understand it. I didn't, I didn't understand the whole, like, "I have a tummy ache, so I can't come in today," you know?

Or like- They was BS-ing you. They, that's BS. Like, telling somebody you got a tummy ache, that is, that's pure BS. Uh, that is definitely not a reason to say [00:35:00] like, "Oh, I don't, I don't wanna come in today." Yeah. That, that's BS. Um- What all? I mean, I'm just using Tomic as an example. I know. But like stuff like that, like, or like, you know, oh, I don't know, my dog has diarrhea today.

Yeah, uh, it- Like, put your... better put Kojo in the, in the car In the diaper. Yes. It, yeah, so again, I'm, I'm used to that stuff now, and I'm kinda, I'm... not kinda, I have adjusted. But in the beginning, that stuff, that was like, it would just seem so easy, but that was like the, the hardest program to get with.

Right. Yeah. So let me ask you this real quick. Mm-hmm. How was it being, what they call a double minority at the workplace? How was that? What that mean? What the, there, what's a double minority? You are a woman- Oh, I'm Black and, um- ... and a b- a woman Ooh, child. How much time we got? No. I'm gonna tell you. Um, it has been challenging.

It has been, um... it, it, it's been very hard. It's been very hard. In fact, I just [00:36:00] attended, um, a Zoom meeting with, uh, um, what is her name? Her name is Aaliyah. She- Mm ... she has like Aaliyah's Intelligence. She has like a, a, I don't know if it's a podcast or... But anyway, we were talking about like hostility in a workplace and, um, how like Black women have to, you know, deal with that and, you know, things of that nature.

But so shout out to Aaliyah for, um, hosting that safe space for a lot of us women in this space who like deal, constantly deal with that. But to answer your question, it was really hard. Um, at times I was the angry Black woman, you know, or, um, even to where like I find myself doing way more than, or having to do way more than my counterparts just to stay afloat, if that makes sense.

Okay. Yeah, makes sense. I think it's just an adjustment [00:37:00] period that, uh, most people have to get used to when it comes to working in corporate. So now- No, I think, no, I think Black women are always gonna deal with that. Th- there's gonna, there's not gonna be no ti- no adjustment period. I, I get what you're saying though, but I think it's just, it's just always, the, it's always gonna exist.

However, we don't have to deal with it. Yeah. No, I was just saying in general, I was asking it from the standpoint of you previously being military and how stuff runs in the military- Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, okay ... is different than- Yeah ... when you get into corporate, 'cause corporate- Yeah ... is just its own different beast.

Right. So that's why I was asking that. Now, having said all that, you were at that role, and then you went to the next role. Like, so I'ma ask you this too. Mm-hmm. How did you know that it was time to leave?[00:38:00]

When enough became enough. Uh, the same,

the same manager who hired me on easily, right? Got this easy conversation with her, "The job is yours." Um, it just became really difficult, like, working for her. Like, the micromanaging, the... And I mean, the micromanaging was crazy. Like, we're not just talking about like, "Hey, give me your war report for what you did for the day."

It was, like, every single move we made because not on- we weren't only- Was it just you or was it everybody? It was me and the, the guy, my friend that helped me on. Okay. Um- And was it because, well, y'all both Black? Yes. Okay. Yes. And that was another thing too. Our peers wasn't having to do the type of stuff that, you know, we had to do.

But needless to say, um, it just got to be a lot. And, um, on... And additionally, it was like, I'm having to deal with this from her. I'm [00:39:00] traveling, like, once every month. I'm away from my family, 'cause I was married at the time, so I was like, "I'm away from my husband and my kids, and I'm still having to deal with this.

Like, I'm not finna deal with this." So I started looking, and again, I came up with a plan. Um, and uh, sure enough, I, I was able to, to land another role, and I did. I wanna go back into that question because so many times on the show I've had people, or we've seen women talk about the Black women manager and all this other stuff.

But in your scenario, it's not just you. As a, as a Black man as well- Mm-hmm ... that's going through these things. Mm-hmm. Is there a possibility, granted, I don't know if you ever had a conversation with her like, "Hey, what's changed?" But is there a positively, possibility that she was under, I guess like more scrutiny or whatever microscope, and possibly was just passing it on to you guys not knowing, really know how to deal with it, or what?

'Cause that's what it seems like. It seems like whatever was going on with her and her management, they was hitting her and so she [00:40:00] was like... It's one of things where... Okay, was she older than you? Uh, was she older than me? Maybe. I wou- I would say maybe by a couple years. Maybe by a couple years. Okay. I only ask that because a lot of times, you know, the Black people sometimes believe in that tough love, and it's kind of one of the ways where- No, this lady wasn't Black.

Oh, she wasn't Black? No. Uh-uh. Oh, okay. Good. No, no, no, no, no. That's my fault for assuming. Yeah. You know what happens when you assume. Make a ass out of you and me. You and me. No, so- No. Yeah. No ... this whole time I was thinking that she was, 'cause when you brought it... And that's how dialed in I am to the Black women's talking so much about Black women managers, that- Oh, no.

Uh-uh. Mm-mm. No. The role after that I did end up with a Black female manager but, um, no, yeah, this, this lady wasn't. Okay. So do you think this was, one, a way to manage y'all out? [00:41:00] Or two, in so many words, knowing that y'all's already m- already minorities to make y'all, to make sure y'all doing what y'all supposed to do because they probably thinking about cutting y'all off anyway.

No, because when, uh, we told them... I wanted, yeah. When we told them we, we wanted to leave, uh, they tried to offer us something different. Yeah, so it wasn't, it wasn't that... I, I do think that, um, like to your point of maybe she was like under a lot of scrutiny. And, um, so, so, so I do understand that part of it.

So it, there is a possibility that that was it as well. But, um, I do think there's a way to communicate that. Um, and when you don't communicate that, and we're, and we're constantly telling you, 'cause me and him were, we were both very vocal, like about certain things. And we were cool with the, the core of the contract, so stuff she was asking us [00:42:00] wasn't...

And that, that's, that's when the straw broke the camel's... I'm sorry, I just got excited 'cause I was like- I get it ... I just remembered it. But we had, we got in good with the core and we had asked, um, about certain tasks, and those tasks never came to... That, that, they, that wasn't was, what was being asked from b- the customer.

So now you just got us doing work just for shits and giggles.

Makes a lot of sense now. Makes a lot of sense. Yeah, so- So you're doing... Okay. So the job that you left, that's the new current role that you're in now? Yeah. Okay. And now, so let's talk about that, 'cause w- like I said, we're gonna talk about this at a, a very high level. Uh-oh. 'Cause you have now entered... Okay, let's, let's backtrack.

Mm-hmm. Let's backtrack. What made you decide that you wanted to leave from doing strictly networking to move more so into, "I wanna get into that cyber sphere"? Um, [00:43:00] so when I was, when it was time to go for my bachelor's, if, if, and I'll tell you what happened. So, um, the way I signed up for my bachelor's degree was, uh, through the VA.

And so when I went to go for my original degree, I didn't see it in the, in what the VA would cover. And so I saw that, um, computer networks and cybersecurity was available, so I was like, "I'll just get my bachelor's in that." You know? And so, um, I went for it. And then, uh, so I was still network engineering while completing my bachelor's, and then, um, during that time I ended up getting a new manager, and You're good.

You're still good. And, uh, I ended up getting a new manager and, um, I remember, uh, he had asked me something. I th- oh, because he, he was in town and I think he'd asked me like To go to dinner with the [00:44:00] team or something like that, and I was like, "I can't. I have class in Maryland. Like, I have to drive from Virginia to Maryland tonight."

And, um, I remember him asking me about my degree and, and, you know, all of that stuff. And, uh, once I finished and I remember I came back and I told him I f- I, I was done with my master's. He was like, "If you want, I can create this cybersecurity engineering position for you, and you can shape it, make it your own.

We can figure out how to, um, tie in, you know, what it is you can bring to this role and what we already have, and, uh, we'll go from there." And that's what happened. We, uh, found someone to, uh, to take on my previous role as a network engineer, and then he created this new cybersecurity role for me, and I've been doing that ever since.

Fire, fire. Yeah, yeah. Shout out to, shout out to him 'cause that was... Yeah. And it was just so random, too. And I, I wasn't thinking about going to, like, to actually, like, work as a cybersecurity engineer. I [00:45:00] was just, just getting my degrees. Okay. So they made the new role for you- Uh-huh ... in cybersecurity. Mm-hmm.

And, uh, they're pretty much letting you figure out what you want your niche to be. Correct. What are you currently gravitating to at the moment? Um, so just, like, harping on, like, what's already in place, like, you know, firewalls, like I was telling you, the, um, AAA servers. Um, but right- So that stuff, like, already exists.

The Tenable.sc scans, that, you know, all that, that stuff already exists. Uh, something I want to bring in is the pen testing. So I did, um, like as I told you, I started building my own home lab. Um, so and then in that particular role, I also have a, um, a laptop straight for pen, pen testing. Like, they already put Kali Linux on there.

They already put the, um, the other software on there. So I kinda wanna figure it out at home and then, [00:46:00] like, bring it into their, um... Can't really go into too much about the technologies and stuff like that, but yeah. Okay. Yeah. Now I'ma connect you with, um, I got my friend Lee. He used to be in the Air Force.

Okay. And, um, he worked his way to being a pen tester to where I think now he's learning how to pen test drones and stuff. Hey, Lee. So like he's- Okay, 'cause I need, your girl needs some help. Yeah, no, he's super helpful. Yeah. He's always, like, uh, busy working on something. Like he- Uh-huh ... he worked for, like, uh, I'ma say LM.

Yeah. So you know what LM stands for. Yeah. And, um, then he moved to Colorado and he got- Uh-huh ... a job for another company. Now he's with this other company where he, uh, he was able to get hired because I, I forgot how many flags he got on the CTF. Uh-huh. But he got an impressive amount to where- Wow ... they hired him.

Uh, so yeah, he's, uh, I'll definitely have to connect y'all 'cause, uh Lee's cool. Lee's been on here multiple times. Yeah. And, uh, he from Memphis, so- Uh-oh. He ain't got a lot of patience for like a lot of the nonsense. My dad is from Memphis. Okay. Well, my dad, well, he passed away, but my dad was from, uh, Memphis too.[00:47:00]

That is so dope. They used to have this thing, um, I remember they used to send some of the Marines out when I was stationed at Quantico. It's called Hack the Marine Corps. Hmm. So they would, um, they would set up like some of the Marine Corps websites like Marine O- uh, is it Marine Online? Um, and then there was another one where like all we did like most of our trainings and stuff.

But anyway, they would, um, have like people hack it and see like how quick they can get into it, and the capture the flag events and stuff like that. So, uh, they have those type of events in, um, I think Vegas. And I'm sure the Marine Corps is not the only org- institution that does it, but, um, yeah, that is so dope.

Okay. Yeah. Um, so I know earlier we were talking about like certifications you were trying to get, and- Uh-huh ... you also were looking into the, the Coursera joint- Yeah, mm-hmm ... the Google one. Um, from g- honestly, from your experience, how helpful have you found that certificate? Because I know there's a lot of, you know, [00:48:00] ups and downs about how people feel about this or that.

I'm of the opinion that I actually really like it. I like it actually more than- Mm-hmm ... a Security+ because a Security+ is pretty much all theory and a couple of maybe, uh, PBQs, whereas- Right ... you get a lot of, uh, lectures in the Google Cybesecurity c- uh, certificate. Mm-hmm. However, you also get some practical stuff where you learn how to do stuff.

Yes. And also a friend of the show, uh, Erin Relfer, she was on there talking about data privacy. She's been working at Google for years. Uh-huh. She knows her stuff, so she's also on there, so they also get another plus for that. Oh, nice. Um, I, I like it a lot. Like, I tell everyone, um, I'm not a... Like I was saying before, like when the conversation of, uh, certifications and all that come up, I be quiet because I am all for getting certifications.

Now, for me personally, I like the instruction that comes with certifications because, um, like we were talking about earlier, we're in a use it or lose it field. If you're not constantly doing this stuff, you're not constantly, uh, doing these practical [00:49:00] applications all the time, you're gonna lose some of that knowledge.

You know, there are times I could still hop on a switch and a rou- router here and there, but I don't remember all the command lines, you know? So, um, for me, I like that aspect of doing it. But to specifically talk about the, uh, Coursera one, what I really, really like about this one that stands out from all the other ones is Google has like real-time people like telling you about their journey and explaining these, you know, modules to you and things like that.

And like I was telling you, I am gonna go for CISSP, which I've started studying for it. But this Google, uh, cybersecurity certification, um, it harps on the, the eight modules of, uh, you know, on CISSP. So I thought that was- The, uh, I mean, the eight domains in, uh, CISSP, so I thought that was pretty dope too.

So, um, I like it. I'm, I'm trucking along. I'm- I think I'm at the end of, uh, module two right now. There's like eight modules. Um, and, uh, and again, how, for everyone watching, how I was able to get this certification [00:50:00] for free, um, is the s- the school that I went to as an alumni, they offered us, uh, this free course through Coursera.

And, um, yeah, so that's another way to get your certifications and stuff paid for. A lot of times your schools have these resources, and they will cover the fee, uh, for that. But yes, to answer your question, I absolutely love this, uh, course so far, and again, it just feels really, um, not like homely, but it feels, like, relatable.

Yeah. That's the word. So funny that you mention, like, schools will pay for stuff. Mm-hmm. Uh, I saw... I think I've seen a lot of people go to the school that you go to based on what I seen on your LinkedIn. Mm-hmm. What made you choose your school that you currently go to versus the Capellas, the WGUs, or any of the other schools that you could probably complete, like, super fast?

Um, so when I first started off at school-- Oh, I'm getting ready to age myself. Um, so when I first started taking college courses, this was like [00:51:00] when I was, like, first joined the Marine Corps. So because we were admin, um, admin got the bad rep of just sitting behind a desk all day. So you either had to be, like, good at PT or going to school to, you know, doing something.

So I started taking courses, um, when my oldest son, he was maybe a couple months old, and he's getting ready to be 16. So I started those courses, like, a while ago. So I started those with American Military University 'cause I was sta- ... My first duty station was Yuma, Arizona, so that was the school everybody was going to.

It was right there on base. It was easy to access. And then so I stopped going to school, right? Life happens. You get married, have kids, all the things, X, Y, Z. Um, when I got to Quantico, when I got to MCAG, it was actually Chris. Chris was like, um, "Yo, you need to sign up with UMUC. They're, like, offering this, uh...

They have the degree programs for what we need and all of that." So, um, it was actually Chris that forced me to get back into school, and, and the crazy thing is I always mess with him [00:52:00] about it. Chris, I know you're watching. I love you so much, but I'm gonna say it. I passed him up, like, in us going to school.

Like ... And so in fact, our, uh, picture from, uh, our picture from, what, the year before last, I wanna say? Uh, he was finishing his, his bachelor's. I was finishing my master's. So I always, I always make fun of him for that. But yeah, that is why, um, I p- I had a friend, and my friend Chris, he was, uh, really adamant about this school, and I'm so glad I did it because UMUC was awesome.

I mean, like, the professors down to, like, the, our peers, um... It was, it was, it was- I wouldn't say school, the coursework was easy, but, um, it was just a blessing knowing that you had help every step of the way. And then what I do like, I'm not sure about how other schools do it, um, a lot of the coursework too were the leads up for the testing out of s- most of the certifications.

So like for CEH, if you wanted to be an ethical hacker [00:53:00] undergrad, um, you could test out in that. They had it for Sec+, they had it for, um, Net+, um, and, and, and the list goes on. So yeah. Yeah. I'm ver- I'm thankful I chose that school. Yeah. I think that's how some of the other schools are where like, like WGU, if you got all these certs, you can kinda like test out like of a lot of classes or whatever.

Uh-huh. Um, but like from my experience of dealing with so many different people on these calls- Uh-huh ... seeing all the certs, seeing the people who can't answer like some basic questions. Yeah. The people who choose certain schools, they kinda get mad at the people who've been in the industry for a while for our takes, but my takes are never out of personal bias.

Mm-hmm. It's really more so of what I experience of dealing with people I, I consult. And so a lot of the takes people are not aware of, I, I sometimes have to come back and say, "Hey, I'm making this off of having hundreds of calls over the last six years of what I've seen on resumes- Mm-hmm ... what people have been able to answer or not answer."

Mm-hmm. And I always tell them, I was like, [00:54:00] "Certain schools, like you particularly already had experience 'cause you were doing networking already." Mm-hmm. Certain schools are typically better if you already have experience versus knowing, not knowing anything. Mm-hmm. Because even when school, e- re- just regular school, school makes you study all the stuff for whatever semester, and then it doesn't build off of it next semester, so you forgot everything you had.

Mm-hmm. Which is a horrible way, I think, to gauge have, if you know something or how to learn, whereas it should just be in steps per that. And not only that, going to people that go to traditional schools where the first two years you'll be taking classes you should took mostly in high school. So now that's where I think a lot of people end up just either failing out or just saying forget it, 'cause it's like I'm not interested in this because I just took these classes.

For me, my first two years definitely were not as good as my last two years 'cause, well, it really wasn't e- a full last two years. I grad- I went into college in 2010 and graduated November of 2013, so it really wasn't a [00:55:00] full four years. Mm-hmm. But those first couple years was a little rocky, one, 'cause I just wasn't interested in the stuff.

Like- Right ... I don't wanna take geology. Yeah. I don't wanna take sociology. Yeah. I'm not interested in taking these classes. I came here to do the CIS degree. Give me all the classes related to computers. Mm-hmm. So I think whenever they change stuff like that and give people the stuff that they actually interested in, that's gonna make for a better experience for people, and also building out that curriculum.

Hey, get with a couple of top companies and say, "Hey, what are y'all entry level people learning?" Mm-hmm. How can we build a curriculum around that so we used to either get an internship or you guys hire somebody from our school? They'll be able to compete and be fine at the job. Yeah. 'Cause a lot of places, unless you, like, they got rotational programs, a lot of places don't hire a lot of entry-level talent because they don't have the resources to really train them the way they want to.

Mm-hmm. And so that's why you'll see three to five years experience for an entry-level role, 'cause they just don't have those programs embedded. Yeah. And that's why it sucks. That's why a lot of times telling [00:56:00] people, like, really research your school, look at the curriculum, look at how many people get internships, because that's what you're gonna need to do in order to get into the industry.

Mm-hmm. Unless you have a person like me or anybody else that is able to help you or speak on your behalf to help you get an internship or a job. Right. Yeah, I think UMUC did a really good job at vetting their, uh, professors because, um, especially in grad school, it was like all of the... Uh, every professor I had was in the, um, in the field.

So, and they were, like, very passionate about what they do. You could tell they almost, like, stepped in with the thought process of, "You're gonna be the next one behind me, and you're not gonna be out there looking like ass and, and, and have my name saying that I taught you this." Like, so I remember I had one professor, and he's the reason why I remember some of the stuff I remember.

I used to have to meet up with him via Zoom on Saturdays because I just wasn't getting the, the curriculum at all. And he was like, "Well, then [00:57:00] if that's the case, we need to be meeting on, on Saturdays, out of Saturdays at 1:00, 1:00, uh, sound." And he was a pilot too, so he was, like, flying on the side. He was doing, like, uh, cybersecurity stuff on the side, and he was, you know, a professor.

So, uh, that was, that was pretty cool too. But it was like that with all of, all of my professors in grad school. Like, they was not playing with us. It was like, "You're not finna be out here saying that I taught you and you don't know none of this." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was funny. I mean, in that area, dude, they have a lot of professors.

Oh, yeah. I have a friend, I think, I wanna say about 2020- Mm-hmm ... she did one of those programs out there. It wasn't through school. It was one of them programs, you know, you could pay for- ... where they say you work for them and they manufacture- Yeah ... but she was able to get in. She learned how to do E- use eMass and all this other stuff.

Mm-hmm. And she's been thriving in her career. And so I, that's how I first knew, like, that was existing because it was over there first. And then- Yeah ... when they started doing it everywhere else, I, I said, "Okay, I'm, I'm, I'm familiar with the game of, of what's going on, um, what you, what you're trying to do in your career."

Mm-hmm. Now, [00:58:00] having said all that, we talked about the certifications and how you feel about certifications. Mm-hmm. Talked about your niche, um, you know, with the pen testing or you got red team in or whatever. Honestly, I'm biased, but I definitely should say you should look more into the blue team, but that's just me.

Uh, I mean, I, I'm in a lab environment, so it's, it's, it's a playground. Like, I can... That's my very sentiment all the time, like- You'll see, uh, if you do your searches, like you'll see a lot of people looking for like either blue team security engineers or, or SOC or incident response analysts- Mm-hmm ... because of all the breaches you've read about and everything else How they didn't contain it fast enough or the people that's there- Yeah

didn't know what to do. And it's like being on the blue team is like being a virtual, like I know you was talking about the doctors of the digital, I think you said digital landscape? No, that, uh, the guy he says, uh, "I am a, I am a doctor of the digital landscape." Yeah, that's what it was. So when it comes to blue [00:59:00] team- Yeah

you're like a fireman, a policeman, detective, a paramedic, anything that's just like a first responder, that's what you are- Mm-hmm ... on the network. Right. So at any given time you never know what it is. You could be on call, "Hey, this is what we just happening." Yeah. "We need you to log on." And that's where that rush comes from, and you can see in all different type of stuff and it's, it's very interesting.

And- If I'm honest with you, I don't, I don't see myself going into a production network soon. I like, like I told you before, I'm a little lab rat. I like being able to be in the lab, test it all up, package it up pretty, send it off and let them have at it. So, so have you thought about security researching?

No. That might be something if you like to write and... Are you, do you have to write about some of the stuff like you finding or what? Yes, then you have to do test reports for everything. You should look into security researching. Well, that's why, that's why, uh, eventually I'm gonna get out of the, the actual like hands-on of it.

'Cause you know, my master's is in, uh, cybersecurity management and policy, and [01:00:00] I really like the writing and policy aspect of it. Um, so we'll see. We'll see. But for now, you know, I'm doing what I do. Okay. Yeah. Now, um, I know we talked a little bit about like, uh, the veterans and everything else. Um, and I wanna ask this that way if they get to the end, they can listen to back to some of this stuff.

What are some type of benefits or things that veterans should look into if they are trying to start them a, a tech career? Some of them, they did some, they try to dress some of their roles up as like they did some IT stuff, but sometimes I know it wasn't really IT, but then some of them are doing IT stuff.

Let's say, let's say both. Let's say they were doing a IT job and then they weren't doing a IT job. What type of stuff do they have at their disposal to possibly get access to, to where at least they can at least get certified? Of course, we know that they can get school paid for, but outside of the school, what could they do?

Um, you're saying like the non-IT jobs and then [01:01:00] trying to go to IT jobs? 'Cause this was, the crazy thing is this was a big conversation at, at, uh, well, amongst people that were in attendance of, uh, Black As Tech because it wasn't just people in tech there. It was people like wanting to get into tech. Yeah.

In fact, one of the girls I met, she's an entrepreneur in the beauty industry and she's wanting to get into tech, so we were talking about those transferable skills. That's what they, they call them. Um, and it's like, I'm gonna go off cue for a second, but did you see that, uh- That skit with Tiffany Haddish where she was, like, talking to, like, the strippers and the hos, and they were like, "I used to count my pimp money."

She was like, "So you're good with finances, huh?" So she was like I ne- I never seen that one. 'Cause, yo, I don't really f- Uh-huh. I find her to be funny acting. I don't find her to be that funny. Oh. Oh. But anyway, um, I don't, if I'm being honest with you, I don't know the resources that are out there, but if it was me, I would look and to see...

I mean, there's so much information out there, but I would just look and see what skills [01:02:00] I have that are, that can transfer into what it is now. Like, even if it's, like, time management, even if it's, like, you know, um, what's, what's some, some, uh... I shouldn't- Well, a lot of stuff I see a lot of times, you got time management, you have people talking about attention to detail.

Yes. Um, conflict resolution. I see, like, a lot of soft skill stuff- Yeah ... that people have on their resume that shouldn't be on there. Oh, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Only because you can showcase those things- Yeah ... in the interview. Um- Yeah. But I would say that, um, I don't know if TRS is still a thing. It's like the, what is it, transition readiness?

Uh, I remember, um, when I was getting out of the Marine Corps, it was a, like, course you had to take. Okay. You had to sit and they, you know, take you through, like, a week long of, like, your transition, uh, process and all of that. But in that course, um, they went through the transferable skills with us. Like, you picked the job you were doing and the job you were looking to do, and you, they were helping you, like, [01:03:00] position your resume and things like that.

If, if, is that what you were asking again? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 'Cause I don't, I mean, honestly, I would just- 'Cause I know, like, um, people say it take about, I think it's, like, either, uh, a year and a half to a year that you need to have your plan on when you know you're about to get out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I've, I've heard that from the many people I've had that's been in the military.

Yeah. Whether it's been the Army, Air Force, Navy, Marines- Mm-hmm ... National Guard, whatever it is they in, they've pretty much said all the same thing. Like, "Hey, you gotta be planning this thing out for real." Yeah. And no, I get it. Like, time flies. But a year and a half, that's, uh... If you about your... If, if, you know, we make time for the things we wanna make time for.

You know? Like, if you really about it, if you really, um, serious about your future and, and what, what it is that's gonna be next for you, then you're gonna do what you need to do. Yeah. And then, um, like, what's that thing? I forgot. It's something. It's called something, but I've seen a lot of military people, they go there and they get, able [01:04:00] to get training for certs and stuff like that.

I cannot think of the name. Um- It'll come to me eventually. Um, I know what you're talking about. Uh, uh, uh, uh...

I can't think of it. I, I, I know what you're talking about. I know what you're talking about. I would- But that just, that just reminded me too, um, a lot of these companies will train you for what it is they need you to do. You just have to be able to sell yourself Well, let's, let's- You know ... actually talk about that really quick- Yeah

because remember I was telling you about the training aspect of it. Yes. I think if it's a good company that wants to invest in employees- Without a doubt ... they, they will train you. I think the companies that don't have the time, that's only worried about output, don't have time to train you. Mm-hmm.

Especially the higher you go up. You luck up sometimes in the, the mid or entry, but I've told people plenty of times, I had contracts I picked up where they showed me all the sites maybe beginning of the day. Mm-hmm. By the end of the day, I was in the queues. Mm-hmm. I [01:05:00] was working. So I think that's where it is because, uh, I forget what this woman name was.

We had a... I don't even know, I don't even know why she end up like blocking me or whatever. She was like- Uh-oh ... she was making like a lot of good con- content on TikTok. Mm-hmm. And I don't know, I don't know, it was, it was weird. But she was always talking about like she had came from the military and, and the government sector, like, "Hey, why don't they train in the private sector?"

And I don't know if I ever responded to it. I don't know. I'd have to go back and even find when- Mm-hmm ... they, like, blocked me. I don't even know if they still even make videos on TikTok, but it was just, um, it was just like a difference based on what I experienced. And a lot of these people are willing to be trained.

They want to be trained. They want to learn the stuff. And I say that you can't teach that. Like, somebody gotta want to get better at it. Mm-hmm. I've worked with people that, where I could tell they just showing up for a check. Mm-hmm. I want somebody to come in there and they wanna get better because, hey, livelihood and they wanna have a better life for they self.

Mm-hmm. And all those different things, but a lot of them just aren't [01:06:00] getting trained. Or they're also, what I know, and anybody that's listening to this could probably back me up on this, a lot of companies don't even have a career progression plan for you. That's for kinda you to determine. Without a doubt.

And that's why people spend five, six, seven, eight years sometimes at the same company and before they know it, they don't know what to do or they- Mm-hmm ... can't get the jobs they wanna do because there was no real career progression. There was no- Yeah ... "Hey, you're gonna be a security analyst one, security analyst two, principal analyst, director."

There was none of that that showed them that like you have in other companies where, "Hey, you gotta go through these steps to get here." Right. And I think that's, like, a big thing. I don't even know if that's just on... I don't know if that's exists on the government side, but the private side for sure. Uh, so when I have calls, and this, this is more so for people that wanna go and be a SOC analyst, and we're doing these questions that I have out for people to answer them, a lot of times they can't.

However, where I come in is [01:07:00] I show them that they know more than they think they know. Right. And then that's, like, the biggest thing I figured out with anything with cybersecurity is, like, sometimes it sound like French, but it's actually English if it's taught to you in the right way. Right. And that, I think, is one of the issues of where, like, now where I see the industry is, you know, you got all these people trying to- Make this money, these companies off of AI, and then you are not training people, so when the boomers leave and the Gen X leave, like what's gonna be left of everything?

I really think it's gonna be a mess. And all this cybersecurity gap and talent gap stuff I think is a facade as well. Yeah. I said, uh, what was it, Thursday when I was on a webinar that I just think it's created to help people go to school and get more certifications to feed the industry. 'Cause if you take a step back, school, companies, certs, everything is just a big circle connected and everybody trying to help each other keep on making money.

Mm-hmm. And [01:08:00] that's kinda what it boils down to, but a lot of people don't really know it when you in it. When you step back, like, oh- Yeah ... I see the play. I see the play. And it's that constant cycle of like chasing what's hot. Right now, AI is hot. Everybody chasing it, everybody getting these AI certifications, and next month it's gonna be something new, and that certification you got last month, it's gonna be irrelevant.

And, but like you said, it's constantly feeding, feeding into- That's why- Into it. Yeah ... that's why it's more important to focus on like foundations and, uh, other things of just how to do stuff because it never changes. I tell everyone that this, what we do is so broad, you just gotta pick a lane. St- I mean, not so much pick a lane, standing, 'cause I can, I too fall into the lane of being octopus sometimes because I have multiple things I can do within the role I'm in and the role I was in before because they're still on the same team.

Um, but it's much easier when you just [01:09:00] find that thing that you like to do, that you're good at, and yeah. Okay. Now real quick, um, it don't have to be a top five, but like what'll be like the top things, like now granted that you're, you're, you're working in the cyber industry and learning what you can, what do you think like the top three top things would be that you would tell the newcomers who are, whether they are already in IT or they're trying to pivot, what should they, in your opinion, learn?

Or it's hard to say learn 'cause cyber is so broad, right? Uh-huh. Just name what kinda worked for, for you. Granted, I know like your situation is unique and different, however- Yeah ... let's say you weren't in your situation, what would you focus on? I know you just left the conference, so I know there's a lot of good info there.

So like what would you try to focus on if you weren't you? If that make any sense. Yeah. So, um, the first thing I would tell anybody is, and I don't know what everyone's spiritual or [01:10:00] religious beliefs are, but one thing, you gotta be locked in with your creator. Like you need to be locked in with God, therefore you will know, like your discernment, what your path is like.

You know, a lot of us are out here just doing what's, what's hot, what's next, you know? And, uh, when you have that discernment and guidance and all those things, uh, you won't be so lost, if that makes sense, you know? I, I get you. Um, secondly, I would say I would definitely network more. I, I already have the eagerness of like wanting to learn 'cause it's just so much.

Um, but I would definitely say networking 'cause like we said, it's not about... What'd you say it's not about? What did your friend say? It's not about who you know, but who knows you. Yeah. Definitely that. Um, I wasn't big on networking. Like I said, this is my first conference ever. Uh, this is my first time doing this.

I've always, uh, like I told you, just introverted when it come to my work. [01:11:00] But, um, yeah, be- because you never know who... Someone sitting next to you can be sitting, you know, a board member. Anyway, um, and what else?

I don't, I don't know. Them words of Nipsey Hussle stay dangerous. So just, yes, eager. You gotta, you gotta, um, you just network everyone. Let me add this. Um, it's college, college certification. Yeah. I'm glad, though. Think if it's able, if it's feasible for them to go to school, should they go? Without a doubt.

Without a lot of the course- coursework that I did in under... I'd say mainly, mainly in undergrad. Grad school was a little different 'cause it's, it's focused, um, on a particular thing. Whereas undergrad, it was [01:12:00] more so all over the place. We were like ethical hacking, security plus, um, there, there was a CNA course where it was like, it was a little, little bit of everything, you know?

Um, but definitely, definitely I, I feel like school, uh, school def- um, laid the, the foundation for, for me. Yeah. That's good. Um, let, let me see here then. What? Got school, cover- cover certification. I know you're try- trying to get CEH. Uh-huh. Um, Google Cyber Security. Mm-hmm. Um, I know I, I mentioned blue team to you.

I also told you to look at the DO insider threat stuff. Mm-hmm. Super interesting. And that, now that's interesting 'cause people are doing stuff on a company computer that they don't know people see. Yeah. And they are trying to do different... That escalated quickly. Mm-hmm. Now that is a role that a lot of people don't talk about, pays a lot because [01:13:00] people wanna protect company trade secrets and potential, uh, bre- breaches.

Mm-hmm. And that a biggest way to do it. Outside of, you could eventually be a person that's asked to show up to court and talk to judges and everything else, and testify based on your skill set. So all that, um, all the jazz. Now, if the listeners Or the watchers wanting to keep up with you, how do they do that?

Uh, let's see. Um, I'm on TikTok a little bit. Um, my name on TikTok is liftingfrostedfirewalls. I know it's corny. My kids helped me to come up with... My kids and ChatGPT helped me to come up with that. But, um, a little backstory, I love to lift. That's my thing. I like to lift, lift heavy. I love working out. Um, frost- the frosted part came from my baking background.

I love to bake. Um, and then the firewalls, obviously I work, [01:14:00] work on firewalls, so we, we just put it all together. Uh, LinkedIn, uh, Myra Marbley. Uh, I am on Facebook as well, Myra Marbley. I'm also on Instagram as queenaandii. Um, that's queenaandii with... Uh, so Q-U-U-E-E-N-A-N-D-I-I. Yeah, I think I named them all.

That was it? Okay. Perfect. Perfect. Well, I'm pretty sure that everybody enjoyed this episode, and we'll probably have to reach back out in about a year or two- Yeah ... do a part two or something to kind of just see how you're doing on your journey and, and, uh, everything else. But guys, uh, if you appreciate this episode, you know, like I always say, subscribe, sh- share it out.

And like I always say, let's stay textual, and we out. Peace.