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Ready to elevate your tech industry game and make career strides like never before? Engage with our fascinating conversation with Bobby McNeil Jr., a principal talent acquisition specialist, and learn how to make strategic career moves and effectively brand yourself. Bobby, an ex-college athlete, brings forth a unique perspective, sharing his journey from being a sourcer to a principal talent acquisition specialist and how effective communication skills were essential to his path.
In the first part of our discussion, Bobby opens up about his college athlete days and the transition to adulthood that college heralds. He offers valuable insights into the role of mentorship and the importance of hard work and smart work. The conversation takes an intriguing turn when Bobby shares his perspective about student athletes being compensated for their name, image, and likeness, giving us a close look at his insights on the NCAA.
Our discussion ventures into the realm of tech recruiting as Bobby talks about his switch from business to tech recruiting. He emphasises on the concept of job hopping strategically to enhance skills and industry exposure. We delve deeper into the need for recruiters to understand the tech industry and converse effectively about it. As the conversation unfolds, we discuss tips on resume-building, networking etiquette, and leveraging social media for personal branding. Whether you're looking to transition into the tech industry or wanting to up your recruiting game, this episode with Bobby McNeil is packed with invaluable insights you wouldn't want to miss!
If you enjoyed the show don't forget to leave us a 5 star review, to help with the algorithm :)
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What got me interested in stepping up to being a recruiter is I noticed like a lot of the candidates I was finding were getting hired. So I was like okay, so I know how to find them. I'm just not talking to them yet. Yeah, I'm already nice at this, let's go. So that competitive drive that I had as an athlete, that was just core in me, is okay, man, I already know how to shoot the jumper. Like put me in the game coach At a high level.
Speaker 2:What was like money and sourcing, like back then.
Speaker 1:Man earlier in my career, man, like when I was a sourcing man I was I wasn't making a lot. I was probably around in the 30, 40,000 range and at the time man I remember when I was young and hungry, making $45,000 for me a couple years in my career, right out of college. At that time for me was a lot of money.
Speaker 2:What makes a good technical sourcer?
Speaker 1:I think that first off I think just to be good at that, and I would even say just to be good at recruiting in general I think you have to have great communication skills. The reason is because you're typically even as a sourcer, even as a recruiter they go hand to hand. Really, you're the first person from the company that they're going to talk to, so you're the first impression. But I think it's important to have good communication skills, both verbal and written. I think it's great to have a presence. You are the ambassador of the company.
Speaker 2:This video is being brought to you by Course Careers. What's going on, guys? If you're looking to start your IT career, then check out the IT course at Course Careers, taught by none other than the great Josh Maddox. I'm pretty sure you heard of him, but we all know that it could be pretty pricey getting the IT, and this course is very affordable. And also, if you don't want to pay back those student loans like I have to, then this is the course for you. So check out the Course Careers course. My link will be in the description. Use code TEXTUAL50 in order to get $50 off of your course and get started on your IT career today. All right, y'all. So today is July 29th. It's the day of the big fight. It's been in the workings for about five to six years. Got Errol ENJ Spence versus Tans Bud Crawford, and I'm sitting on our team man. Anybody can win, but I'm picking Bud to win. Decision or maybe possibly late stoppage. I'm picking Bud to win. You got a horse in the race.
Speaker 1:Not really, but I do like Tans Crawford. I do like Tans Crawford. I like his technique, I like his ability. I've been watching him full of a while, so I like Tans for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm just a fan of boxers. That's like everybody's a real boxer, but he holds himself outside the ring. It's outside the ring Like the box, is my pops in the grill watcher and that's who my dad going for too. So we just like people that live a real boxers lifestyle and don't take it for granted. So I feel like some of those intangibles going to come into the ring as well. As, unfortunately, errol had the bad wreck. He got different teeth in his mouth now and towards retina in the year before that, and he is really been at 147 too long. So maybe those things show up tonight. Who knows, maybe you guys see me the maybe by the time this comes out. I was right. I could be wrong. It's boxing. Anything can happen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, same here. But yeah, I'm definitely going for Tairas man, but we'll see what happens.
Speaker 2:Yep, but let me get them gunshots going real quick to wake y'all up on this Monday. Welcome back to the sexual top podcast. Well, I'm your host. Hd this episode 97. And we got my guy here, bob the builder, aka Bobby Neil, and he came to rock with us today. If you're listening on Apple podcast or Spotify or even Google podcast, please leave us a comment, share it out, so algorithm can help us grow. And if you're watching right now on YouTube, please leave us a comment, hit the like button, subscribe. No same thing Always helps. The algorithm helps us grow. You guys did amazing on my episode, like two weeks ago with Chloe, so I'm expecting the same thing for you guys today. But we got Bob right here in a funny enough I actually I didn't have time to do it, but right before the pod I was going to rip the sound from Bob the builder and I was going to make that a little sound bite and play it for you. But can you tell the audience, man, man, who is Bobby man?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you know, basically you know I kind of kind of just give a kind of a quick summary. You know I've been in the game in the tech recruiting game for about 14 years, started off as a sorcerer. Now I'm a principal talent acquisition specialist for you know software and electrical engineering and striker work that a lot of different Fortune 500 companies eaten AWS as well. So I literally been in the game for a long time. I'm also the chapter president for the Raleigh Durham region for the blacks and technology foundation. We're all about increasing representation for black people in the tech industry. We do that a number of different ways. But I'm also a former college athlete. You can probably see my jersey in the back and some some other stuff here. So Barton College Bulldogs 2007 Division two national champions. So before I started, like in you know, corporate America and before I started in the tech industry, I was a star basketball player. So that's a little bit about me. You know just kind of like my career. And then also you know some things I've done. You know prior to that.
Speaker 2:Nice man. As you seen, I'm some of the questions I sent you. I was going to ask a little bit about high school. I know that's like seeing, probably like a long time ago now for you as far as like maybe your interest at that time and what you had just said. You know your sights set on back then. But I guess let's talk about a little bit. I guess, like from high schools or college, like what, like what was your mindset then? Because sometimes I would say probably like most athletes, like I had Josh on here last week and he was talking about he played college football and I used to cyber security and you know he started doing something different at first, like when he went in the school I think he said his first major was like physical therapy. So what was your mindset like coming out of school and now you was balling and everything else, like what was your? What was your mindset on?
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, like high school, like it was all about, you know, playing ball. You know I mean like. But also my parents. They really instilled in me and my sister the importance of education too, right. So you know our family has a history of ballers, you know. So I was the next one in the generation in line, right. But she also my mom and my dad. But my mom especially wanted to make sure that, you know, I applied myself, like you know, as far as from an educational standpoint. So really, in high school, you know I was, you know I was that, you know, typical, you know star athlete. You know it was all about basketball. You know I was practicing, I was in the gym, I was doing AU tournaments, going to basketball camps. That was like my thing. I like eat, breathe and slept at basketball, right. But also wanted to make sure I was good in school, too right. So you know I was. I lived on the honor roll, you know, when I was in high school, right. So I was really involved there, you know, really involved, like you know, in sports in general. I played a little bit of a wide receiver when I was in high school and I remember, like the coach at the high school I went to is like hey, man, you could be a D1 wide out, like you know, because I could run real fast and I had good hands right and I had like a lateral movement. I was like, no, I'm just going to stick to this ball thing, man. So I ended up playing basketball. I was a four year varsity letterman and it was just. It was just my mindset, man. I was trying to get to the league, like like every you know young guy that's playing basketball. Right, I was trying to get to the league, but I knew I was like, okay, I need to go to college first because I is actually is interesting. I was in the same kind of class as LeBron, like you know. So I was a senior in 2003. And, man, I remember going to like I think it's a job played him a you. Huh, did y'all play them a a you? I did not. I played against Chris Paul in a you. How was that?
Speaker 2:good, that's my favorite player. Was that, that's my favorite player? How that went.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, chris Paul, he's here in North Carolina where he was. He grew up here. He was like the number one player in the state by far. But I remember like kind of being in that same group and kind of hearing about you know him and kind of hearing about LeBron and everything like that. But you know, it was that was my mindset, you know. Definitely the next step for me was to like, work as hard as I can to get a, you know, get a full scholarship and get that ride, but also wanted to make sure, too, that I was on top of myself academically, because I just didn't want to be stereotyped. You know, I think that's something that was important for me even when I was, you know, younger, as a young black man, I didn't want to be stereotyped Like, yeah, I can play ball, but I can write a mean essay too.
Speaker 2:So that's nice man. I think a lot of young brothers and I'm not gonna go that far and say that it would be I think I've seen a difference. I've seen my friends that were extremely good at sports. They had both parents also kind of be balanced. We're good being good in their grades and I've seen unfortunately, sometimes the boys maybe that that presence wasn't around as much focus more so on sports and then take their grades as serious. And ironically, one of the smart things, the smarter things for kids to do that in sports, is to have good grades, because that's going to help you get into better schools. Because some people I know some people that are super talented in certain sports but because they didn't take care of business in that classroom or the ACT score wasn't a certain score, they couldn't get into some of the colleges that they want to go to, so they had to settle for other ones. Or maybe they just think it's an offer, yeah, and I want to touch on what you're talking about with the derived receiver thing. Real quick, is, from my observation back in high school and even college, like a lot of basketball players super, extremely talented, especially if they want to play skill positions, and I could see why they wouldn't want to because he's like, okay, boom, the basketball I work at, I'm a May wave one and the people playing football or whatever. So I could see that. But like we always like, even sometimes like just in gym, we'll be out there playing you know, two hand touch or whatever. Like man, why they don't come play the hour you can jump, they can do this. Like we'll be a monster with these dudes. Man, one of our star players was a two way, really three like. He was like I think he did track, I think he did like shot, putter and track. He was very good and basketball and he was like one of the state's top D and they want him to come to LSU but he didn't want to go there because they were going to try to make him play football. He wanted to play basketball, but it's just crazy, man. So you go from high school into college and also I want to talk about this too because, granted, you also had a scholarship, so I know it's a little bit different. But I don't think we talk about how important it is to really look into the school, that whether it's you or possible kids maybe going into those curriculums, maybe looking at like the alumni and then you know it's being black, like looking at like that population there, really going through that and understand what this investment of time and money is for kids for four years. I don't think we do a good enough due diligence at it, because a lot of times, a lot of people are first generation graduates, yeah, and they don't know who to turn to. I think now that we're in a social media age, you can reach out to somebody like yourself or me or many of our other counterparts that are out here that have been to school. But did you have I'm actually like this because I just thought about this question Did you have, like multiple offers or was the one you had is that the one you said, that I'm just going to move because they're going to. Let me play right away.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I had multiple offers. But you know, what you said was very key because I too I was first generation male in my family to graduate from high school and to go to college. Same Right, yeah. So, but yeah, I had multiple. I had multiple offers. Now, in high school I was a star, no doubt. When I was in college I was full transparency, I was more of a role player, but I had multiple offers. I had some low level D1 offers. I had a few, and I don't even know a few. I had a handful of D2 offers because Barton College is NCAA Division II, so I had a few D2 offers. I had some partials too like from some more notable like CIAA schools and things like that. But my decision making process was Barton College. At the time they were the top or one of the top NCAA Division II basketball programs in the country and still are. So actually, a guy that I mentor is actually going to be going there Nice In the fall, so I'm actually really excited about that. It gives me even more of a reason to go to a game. But what I didn't have any kind of people like guys in my family or that came before me that had college experience. So a lot of ways in my family, I was a trailblazer and kind of still am to an extent. But what I really did is I definitely wanted to involve my parents my parents, granted, they didn't have any college experience, but I wanted to definitely involve them because not only did they want me to go to a great basketball program, but they were concerned about the academia as well, the academics, the culture of the school. Think about it You're sending your child to another place for four years. So I wanted to make sure that I involved them as well. And even some of the guys I mentor athletes, student athletes going to make that jump and make that decision definitely involve some key people in your life that's older than you and wiser than you, because they may be able to see things that you may not see. But yeah, I got a full athletic. A lot of people don't know this is why I got a full academic scholarship too. So for four years. So again, my parents.
Speaker 2:So you're done with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I got a full academic and full athletic. A lot of people just talk about the athletic piece because that's sexy, right, you know I mean, oh, you got a full athletic scholarship, but I got a full, full academic too. So but I give, you know, huge props and kudos to my parents for, you know, definitely instilling in me early the importance of education. Yeah, man Good job For real.
Speaker 2:So now that's that's perfect that you actually already kind of laid that up for me, saying a role player in college, right, because we're going to talk about that later on, about why I also feel like most kids should play a sport, because it just teaches you some things that transfer over to the corporate. So now let's briefly talk about college. You know national championships, maybe some things you discover because I've had some videos about college can prepare you for the real world, how college can be beneficial, because you know the latest talk around town is like you don't need to go to college, and while I agree you don't need to, I always do tell people you can find a cheap way to go or somebody could pay for it. It can't hurt you. What are some things that you learn your time and cause being a student and athlete? What are some different things that you learned and you took away that you kind of keep with you still to this day?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think, when I was in college. For sure, I worked hard when I was in high school, but in college that's a whole another level of athleticism, that's a whole another level of curriculum, right, you know. So I had to definitely learn what hard work truly was and what hard work truly is, you know, as a student athlete, you gotta be highly dedicated, you know, highly dedicated. I remember, you know, getting up early, going to practices. You know we were doing skill workouts. You know you gotta eat breakfast and you gotta go to class. Then you gotta come back, do drills, go back to class, you know, and then do weightlifting. Then you gotta do, you know, homeroom or like you know, you, your study group, you know, to make sure you know you're doing your work you need to do, and then we would practice for like three, three and a half hours. So I think you know that there was a difference, there's a, there was a different level, you know, of hard work. So I think I learned what that was all about. It's not only working hard but working smart, you know, and I think a lot of times, you know, we don't talk about that as much. We're like working hard, but what are you working hard at and are you spending quality time and valuable time working on the things that are gonna give you the most optimal benefit? So that's what I learned truly about hard work, time management. You know you are away from your parents, you're away from your mother or away from your father or guardian whoever's looking after you in your early years and yeah, they're a phone call away but they're not there. So you have to you really get a fast track on being an adult. And that's really where I kinda look at college, at if we just taking the academics out, you basically having an apprenticeship on how to be an adult, those four years, you gotta get yourself up. You gotta make sure you eating. You know, yeah, you got coaches and things like that, but you know they're really there for the athletic piece. They're really there to make sure you're the best player that you can be and also the best you know man or woman that you can be. But a lot of that autonomy is really on you. So time management, prioritization and responsibility I think a lot of those, a lot of things that I learned being in college and being a student athlete. We just talking non-academic.
Speaker 2:Nice, nice. I like that Cause I've said those things to them as too about just growing you up Like I was on the quarter system, so you had to kinda propose the course of not going to class a day, or maybe somebody giving you the work, all those different things. There is nobody that first, sometimes you, the people that came in that first semester with you. You don't see them no more.
Speaker 1:Yeah and that's not you just gonna say something. Yeah, and I think playing sports you were talking about that earlier like being involved in sports, it you know people, you know, yeah, you gotta make your grades and all of that. But really what it does like it keeps you accountable. You know like, hey, I gotta do my work in the classroom so I can be on the athletic field or be on the court, and it keeps you accountable, right, especially when you're in college, because college sports, I mean, that's not even lie about it, it's a business. So that's one thing I did learn too. That smacked me right dabbing the face. Yeah, once I got to college, it was all fun and games when it was high school and AAU and all of that. But you know there's a lot invested into the success of an athletic team and you know you're talking about. You know the differentiator between wins and losses can be a coach's job. Oh yeah, you know could be. You know all of that Like there's a lot of money, or if it's not a lot of money, there is some money and some things invested, resources invested in that right. So it's no joke, it's a business and there's a lot of accountability. So you gotta hold your grades, you gotta be a good upstanding person on campus in that community.
Speaker 2:So it's a lot of accountability for sure and, speaking of that, I'm glad you said it's a business, because over the years well, now we're moving in we're being a little bit more progressive. Now we got kids getting NIL deals but they're making more, like, for example, angel Reese and all them at LSU. They're making more than the women at WNBA just without their deals. I was gonna ask you about how you feel about athletes getting paid Because, like you said, it's a business and we know now. I think the disadvantage is some smaller schools probably cannot pay, you know, based on like, based on bigger schools. But I think that's just like the real world. Like you go to a bigger company that has a bigger budget and a bigger pay band, that can pay you more than a smaller company that can't pay that. So I think it's just relative to your skill set. You should be paid based on the value you bring to a team. So what you feel about that?
Speaker 1:Man, let me tell you back I'm gonna date myself a little bit, right. I was in college from 2003 to 2007. Like, while I was in college, facebook had just dropped and it was the Facebook, and I remember when and I'm gonna tie all this in but I remember, like you, had to have a college email address to get on Facebook. You know what I'm saying. Like so social media really wasn't a thing like that, right, like you know, it didn't really become prominent till. Well, you know, after I was in college. And, man, like all these different social media platforms that athletes have today, you know to, you know, put themselves out there, get exposure. I mean, my God, I wish I had that when I was playing, right, you know. So I'm totally for athletes getting paid something. College, I'm all for college athletes getting paid 100%. I remember even, like you know, autographs that I signed and things that I did and the team did when we won a national title. You know, like you know, it would have been great to get some income or some sort of financial support for our name, image and likeness, you know, but those things just weren't around at the time and I'm not, like you know, bitter about it, and you know the world has evolved. We live in the digital age now, so having a digital footprint is a must and you have a digital brand if you like it or not, right? So I'm 100% for it. I think it should be, and I'm not like an NIL expert, but I would say I think it should be definitely tiered. Obviously, your star players would get you know some of the more optimal deals because they are the star players, they are the leaders of the team and you know they're high performers, right? So I think there should be more incentives for performance as well in the NIL do. But I mean, yeah, 100%, I'm all for NCAA athletes getting some sort of financial backing or some sort of opportunity to earn all for their abilities and their name.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I totally agree, because I think, as this goes on and on, they'll have no choice but to probably come up with some of the sanctions they've made in the past on people that possibly took money or did things right. I mean, what do they expect? Like they forget a lot of these guys that they get? These schools come from impoverished areas and if they wouldn't on the scholarship, they couldn't afford to get there, although they probably don't have any money, you know, lo and behold, they get hurt and now they can't play no more. So I took their spot. Now they're used up Like that's the, you know that part that really sucks for like athletes, and there there should be. I think they have it, and I could be wrong. It's not like a sports podcast, because I don't look into that stuff as much as I used to. But as far as, maybe, insurance for college players, as far as you know, if you get hurt like hey, you might have been projected to go first round, second round, third round, no matter. But now, if you never bounce back, you know what's life like for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, for sure, man, yeah, and, like you know, I brought up all the social media stuff to say, like, man, I would have 100% took advantage of all the different social media platforms that athletes have today. You know, and it's more you know, it evolved digital age Like. If I would have took advantage of some of those things, or had some of those things, man, like, I could have like been doing clips on my games, workouts and I could expand at my reach far and wide. So I definitely 100% for them using that to get deals, get exposure and get the name out there for sure, and I think professionals need to be doing that too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree, I know, for for me, like I'm a, I'm just a little younger than you. I came into high school like 06 and then I came out in 2010. And even then social media wasn't what it is now Like. My first social media site was MySpace and even then MySpace was changed at the time, Like you could add certain things, but you couldn't just like have these smartphones where we take these good quality videos and put them up, so there was a barrier to entry. If you couldn't afford someone who could actually go out to your games, I had a camera and record you playing, like a lot of people that have somebody to record them playing an artist of now, besides, maybe trying to get the film from the coaches and whether or not that was actually recorded very well. So I definitely agree on that man that that probably be a discussion for like a lot late night live stream or something one day. But I forgot to mention and ask you this but in college, what was your major?
Speaker 1:My major was business Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, was it like business administration or Business administration? Yeah, okay, did you have a minor or anything? Nope.
Speaker 1:Okay, that was just. That was just my straight up major Yup Nice.
Speaker 2:I would want to. I will be willing to believe that business administration was a. I can't say you can't go wrong with this administration at all. But I think a lot of people do business admin but don't know what they want to do with it, and I think that's sometimes where their holdup is, if they go business administration Cause I think it's a very good degree, but I also think it's very broad in scope, as far as if you don't figure out what you want to do with it afterwards Much like my degree in computer for major systems I think it's very broad and not niche down enough. But so you finish school and then your first job was doing accounts receivable. How was that? Did you have like a lot of jobs you applied to once you graduated or did you already have like an offer waiting on you? How was that for you?
Speaker 1:No, so I graduated, we just won a national title and like we won that my senior year. So like, just like two or three months later I'm graduating, I'm walking across stage and I tried some of the like overseas stuff and things like that. Honestly, it didn't really kind of pan out for me. So what I did here in Raleigh, north Carolina, I went to a staff agency in downtown Raleigh. So I was like I'm going to a staff agency. This was like 0708. And I actually went there to put my name in so they could help me find a job. Like I'm a business major, I've had these internships, I've had these accomplishments and did these extra curricular things while I was in college. That was really my resume, right, that's all I had to bank on. And I threw the national championship in there too on my resume, just because somebody was interested and cared. But I went there and like, hey, just kind of was interviewing, and then this lady, the person that was interviewing me, she was like hey, you should actually come work for us to kind of start your career. We have an opening in the finance group. So it was a small staff agency. They had like their recruiting wing and then they had their corporate ring with all their corporate functions. So I was like, ok, yes, sure it wasn't paying a lot, but it was a start. So I went there and that's really how I started there. I was like really basically doing corporate accounts and see, well, I wasn't like calling individual consumers Like, hey, pay your bill, it wasn't like that. But yeah, these staff agencies, they had these contracts with all these large major corporations and they had temps there or they had people that were they didn't necessarily we didn't necessarily recruit but they payrolled there. So it was my job to kind of look at all these, look at the spreadsheet, look at all these invoices and actually call like CFOs and call like COOs about the status of their payment and things like that. So even at like 22, 23 years old, I was talking to CIOs, cfos, about these invoices and things like that and kind of talking about terms and recording information that they were telling me putting in the system. I didn't know that that was later then going to set me up for what I was going to be doing later on, which is tech recruiting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the hope, man. That's the next thing I'm going to ask you is how did you peer from doing a council receivable at that company to doing channeling sourcing at that same company? How did that?
Speaker 1:happen. Yeah, I'll be honest with you, I didn't enjoy working in finance. I didn't enjoy it. I basically would always go to the other side of the office, right, and I saw people going to lunches, they were like going to conferences and they were like on the phone and they were just like, wow, it was just really high-paced and really exciting. I'm like what is that over there? And then my manager was like that's the recruiting division. I was like I want to go there, right, because it was just highly engaged. It was just a lot of activity and I didn't really like working back office. I was doing the same thing repetitiously every day. So I wanted to get over there because it just seemed like they had a lot of activity and I expressed interest in being a recruiter. It was like, hey, I don't have any recruiting experience. But even then, early in my career, I knew the importance of transferable skills. Then it wasn't this buzz name that it is right now, but I knew I had the transferable skills, or what I like to call business skills. I was like, hey, I'm on the phone a lot already. So I'm on the phone a lot already and I'm talking to people that I don't know, and not only am I not talking to people I don't know, I'm talking to C-suite, so I know how to convey this message over the phone. I've got some of those skills that I can communicate, because that's really big. As a recruiter, that's like OK, cool, well, I'm not proving yet. So I did not get a recruiter job, but I ended up getting a recruiter coordinator, sourcing type of assistant role, and that was the thing I always tell people if you're trying to transition or trying to get into another field, another industry, sometimes that first job might not be the job you want, but it can be a launching pad to get to where you want to be. So I was just basically doing like managing the job postings. I was like scheduling interviews for them, doing all the administrative things. I wasn't getting on the phone yet, but I was just really learning kind of the administrative things before I start doing more of the strategic, tactical things.
Speaker 2:Right, ok, and so what did you like about sourcing that you pretty much decided, hey, I'm going all in, I'm going to make a career out of this. Like, what was that? What about it makes you really like it, yeah?
Speaker 1:So the sourcer role has evolved since I was in it, like now, like a you know sourcer is really for people who don't know. Like a recruiting source is somebody who handles all the top funnel activity in the recruiting funnel, right. So it's basically getting candidates and applicants and kind of pre-qualifying them Right. A lot of sources even get on the phone with people and you know they get them to like a certain point in the process. A sourcer back in the day wasn't what a sourcer is Now. It was just all like finding the profiles, finding, identifying the applicants based on the job requirements and sending them over to the recruiter so they could talk to them Right. What I liked about it is that it gave me an opportunity to really kind of learn, ok, what a recruiter is going to look for, Right. So I liked that. So I had to like really it gave me an opportunity to profile, calibrate before I could even get on the phone, right. So it gave me an opportunity to learn, ok, this is what hiring managers are looking for, right, and I see a consistent trend, consistent theme. But also, ok, this is what my the recruiters that I'm supporting, this is what they're looking for. So it gave me an opportunity to really kind of learn what that looks like. Another thing that I like too is that before I got on the phone with anybody, I was shadowing interviews I've shadowed. I was shadowing like phone screens. I was shadowing hiring manager interviews. I was shadowing panel interviews and I made sure I took notes and I remember I had this big notebook and I would just take notes and I would just document stuff and the word doc things I would see because I was keeping up with the trends. So I think, like hearing all of those things, I think what set me apart from a lot of my peers at the time who were kind of young in the game and entry level like me, is that I took every opportunity I had to learn very seriously. I just wasn't in there like sitting like kind of sitting like this, when they were like, you know, having interviews or anything like that. I was like deliberate about taking notes and learning. What got me interested in stepping up to being a recruiter is I noticed like a lot of the candidates I was finding were getting hired. So I was like, okay, so I know how to find them. I'm just not talking to them yet I'm not influencing any recruiting processes. So if, like, I think, like I don't remember, I remember I ran like a whole spreadsheet. I just know I had a high percentage of my people who were getting hired because I was literally just passing them over to the recruiter and they were talking to them. So I was like, okay, I wanna get in the game, so now I know how to find them check. Now I wanna talk to these people, I wanna help them prepare for interviews. I wanna be the person that guides them through the process. So it was just basically, man just being successful and a lot of people I was finding on LinkedIn and finding on career builder at the time. That's the stuff we use.
Speaker 2:We're getting hired.
Speaker 1:So I was like yeah, man, I'm already nice at this. Like, let's go. Like so that competitive drive that I had as an athlete, that was just core in me. It's like okay, man, I already know how to shoot the jumper. Like put me in the game, coach, I'm ready to play. So that's what it was all about.
Speaker 2:I feel you on that. One man shout out to you for that Cause. I was about to ask you cause I forgot about career builder and monster and auto sites back in the day that pretty much were used and then, until LinkedIn came on and started getting a little bit more prevalent and more respected and eventually kind of being probably like that main place that people look for. So, around this time, this might've been what when you were doing this around 2009, 2010? 2009, 2010,? Yeah, okay, so at a high level, what was like money and sourcing like back then? I know it's probably changed over the last, oh, yeah, 13, 15 years. So like what was it then? Cause my, not the last episode. A couple of episodes ago, chloe and I were just talking about how, in 2013, 2014, how we thought 40K, 45k, you know was doing it as a young professional back then. Right, cause it was just a different time, it's it wasn't as expensive as it is now. Well, what was that looking like back then? And oh no, I know that's pretty much right after you know, financial collapse to like that 08. So everything's kind of slowly was surely coming back up. What was that like back then?
Speaker 1:Man, early in my career, man, like when I was a sourcer man I was I wasn't making a lot. I was probably around in the 30, 40,000 range and you know I've come so far Like I'm well above that now. But at the time, man, I remember, when you know I was young and hungry. You know, making $45,000 for me a couple of years in my career, right out of college at that time for me was a lot of money and I remember even talking to, like my friends and my peers that were in the game with me at the time and we were happy if we got a, if we got a $45,000 base salary awful letter. You know, like a lot of gold was like you know, can we just get the 40K, you know, and but you know I really look at that time in my career was really a blessing because I wasn't making a lot of money but it was fun. You know it was a fun time. It was a learning time and it was a time where I could definitely like, really like learn my skills. But I was young and hungry man. Like 40, 40, 45,000 then was a lot of money. Now, you know, being in the I mean fully embedded in the tech industry, man sources make way more than that now. So I tell people, man, like I've been around, you see me a lot, you know I do a lot of things, but man, I literally started from the bottom.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I mean, but what you weren't getting in salary, you were getting the skills. And so one of the things that that's also talks of contention is job popping. Right Now I've told people you know, yeah, you can get paid more in job pop. I'm not going to be against you job popping because, say, you got to get your money, but I've told them, hey, you need to make sure that you're not always just job popping laterally. If you're, job popping is to a job that's going to give you better skills, so you have more skills in your utility belt. If you're just job popping to the same job, then eventually you're going to plateau out because you didn't learn anything. You're just doing the same thing, just getting paid a little bit more everywhere else, versus actually hopping to something that's going to be worthwhile in the next five to 10 years that you can always get callbacks for because you did so many things at this company. Like that's what it's really about. Well, to me it is. You know, I don't know what your, what your thoughts on is.
Speaker 1:I know it's a different source. I'm all for. I'm all for strategic job hopping Keyword and emphasis on strategic, though, mm-hmm, when I've talked to a lot of candidates by, even when I've done like sessions with people, they don't the jobs that they've hopped from it hasn't been strategic. What I mean is that is that for me, if you're going to leave a company at the one or two years and I'm telling you I'm practicing what I preach I quite literally did this, especially early in my career, right, every move that I made was a strategic move. I either left for more industry exposure because sometimes it's not always about money, mm-hmm but if it is cool. But I would say it should pay you significantly more If you leave in just for like an extra 2K on base, extra 5K on base.
Speaker 2:Wait a time.
Speaker 1:You need to stay where you're at.
Speaker 2:Shoot sometimes an extra 10 don't even be worth it, right exactly.
Speaker 1:So actually, after you do all the taxes, whatever state you live in and all of that, you go into office waste more gas, exactly. So I don't I'm not an advocate for that they have to be paying you a pretty high percentage on over for that right. So I think that's something that cause that can change your livelihood. You can take that money. You can invest it in other things, whether it's you know, certify you know, recertify yourself, or even some, some endeavors outside of your career, if you're looking to invest in some things. So that's that's strategic, because it helps your livelihood. But also that if you're managing your money correctly, you can invest in other things. You know you can and you can, like you know, invest in yourself, invest in other things that you can double your income or increase your income outside of what you're earning in your career. So that would be an example of strategic. Also, you mentioned as well which I agree you know like. For instance, I was working after I left headway, which was the company I was talking about when I first started, I went to another staffing agency for a recruiter job, right, so that was a strategic move. Once I got there, I went to a technical staffing agency. That was strategic because it got me embedded into the tech industry. Yeah, and everything that's associated, adjacent or attached to the tech industry is going to be lucrative, not even if you're not a technologist yourself. If you work non-tech, chances are, on the balance of the probability, your earning potential is going to be higher. So I went. I went that route so I could get knowledge on technical recruiting and understanding that environment, that industry, that atmosphere right. So if it's to get more exposure to an industry, up level your skills, up level your exposure to different technologies, I'm 100% for that. But just leaving a job just because somebody made you mad on Monday and Thursday, I wouldn't do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I got a climate. It's kind of it's not as similar, but I mean it is what it is. But also, like you said, when we were talking about investing yourself in certifications or whatever, one of the things too like I talk about is, through the interview process, it's figuring out, hey, you know, what do they feel about continuing education while you're improving yourself? A lot of times I ask those questions. I said, well, we have this allocated for conferences, we do this for these different types of like SANS programs and we do this. And that I'm like cool, cause that's the thing, gotta come out your pocket, I don't. I mean, I don't mind the reimbursement, but if I ain't got to pay it at all, y'all just pay it. That's perfect. So there are other things that you can get that would like. For example, sans sometimes costs you, you know, $2,000. Now, the new job you take may not give you a substantial amount of raise and salary, but the fact that you don't gotta come out 10 care your own money, you know, a win is a win and you're getting valuable skills that maybe you get a higher position at the company or you go somewhere else. Just offer the information that you learn with that, that skill set. So I'm glad that you touched on that, and now I want to ask you, since you brought up being a and moving to technical sourcing and your own like definition, what makes a good technical sourcer?
Speaker 1:I think that you know, first off, I think you know just to be good at that, and I would even say just to be good at recruiting in general I think you have to have great communication skills. The reason is is because you're typically even as a source or even as a recruiter they kind of go hand to hand, really. You're the first person from the company that they're gonna talk to, so you're the first impression, right? So I think it's important to have good communication skills, both verbal and written. I think it's great to have a presence. I mean, you are the ambassador of the company. I think also a good sourcer, a good recruiter, somebody who is gonna advocate for the candidate, you have to advocating for the candidate is big, and what I mean by that is that you know, look for ways to be a door opener instead of a gatekeeper. You know now, granted, I think there are certain things in life that should be gatekeeper, just for just care and things like that, but understanding that it's your job as a recruiter to be an advocate, prepare your candidates. You know a good recruiter is gonna prepare their candidates for the interview and make sure they have all the information they need to be successful at each stage. You know, as a good recruiter, a good source, it's gotta be more than just getting somebody in the recruiting process. You know that's important, but the long you have you play a role in the longevity of that candidate getting through the process. So a good recruiter is gonna be informed and is gonna help prepare you and be an advocate for you, right? I think also, especially in technical sourcing and technical recruiting, you have to know what's going on in the tech industry. You know when I've even managed recruiters. You know in my career even recruiters I mentor. Now you gotta be able to talk some technical lingo. You gotta be able to talk technology at a conversational level. No one, no one is gonna. The hiring managers are not gonna expect you as a technical recruiter, or even the engineer that you're talking to with your phone screening. It's not gonna expect you to be a technologist. They're not gonna expect you to know how to code in Java. They're not gonna expect you to understand. You know the nuances of data science, but you gotta be at least able to talk about it at a conversational level, right? So that way you earn trust from the hiring manager but you also get buy-in and trust from the candidate, right? I've had so many stories of like you know, recruiters I've worked with I mean not even say recruiters. I've worked with candidates that have gotten on the phone with me and like, amen, you're great, because I just talked to another recruiter, another company. They didn't know anything. They didn't know the difference between front end, back end, full stack. They didn't know anything, like they didn't know anything about the role at some sort of technical level. So I think it's important to know that. Also, think it's you have to understand what's going on in the market as far as where candidates are going. Why are candidates leaving companies? Why is talent moving? I'll even take it a step deeper why is talent migration? That's gonna help you source, that's gonna help you strategize with your hiring managers. Like, why are people moving out? Why is tech talent moving out of California? You know, why are people leaving these companies and moving to these companies? So it's important to understand that right, so you can be a better partner for your hiring managers but also be a better advocate for your candidates. Yeah, so I think those are the key things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you said a lot of stuff that I agree with, because I've had some times where I talk to recruiters and like, okay, I mean I guess. And just from the candidate side, sometimes you just feel like let's say, for instance, I didn't make it through the screening. But when you talk to the recruiters, like they don't even kind of at a conversational level, they don't really know much. It's like how could you be so sure you're making the right decision when you can't even talk to me about the things that you're supposed to be hiring for?
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So I totally agree with you on that one and I also agree with you about the. You know, taking this stuff further, about saying no one why people are leaving, I think that's a big one. You're gonna have the companies that's gonna be progressive and you're gonna have the companies that's just gonna. What I've seen is a lot of companies are saying, oh well, we're so-and-so and it's the way we do it. If you don't like it, then go somewhere else. I've seen them. They're living off the. Their names say everybody wants to work here. So it's similar to one of those things of why MBA is better than NFL is because of, of course, everyone. Most people's money in MBA is guaranteed and it's not the. I'm gonna try to see if I can sit way back in so I can make my point. In the NFL, there are so many people that just want to play in the NFL that possibly going on a major strike may not work, because they'll just put out a product with anybody unless the main stars don't play. Well, when you get to some of these bigger companies that have these big names and the you know the man's attached to them is gonna keep it like that. People will always go and work for them, regardless if it's you know better for the employee or not, just because who it is and what they can be on their resume. So sometimes progress probably can't be met because they know people are willing to take whatever deal they give them because who they are. So I think those companies will still do good. But eventually you know we've seen in every what 15 years some new player emerges and they become the new kid on the block. I think that's what we're starting to see now, where people are just like think about it, people are taking huge pay cause it's just not the going office. Yeah, they're like hey, I'll work remote man, because I can't get nothing at work. Everybody's in meetings. I get on my nerves. I just wanna do my work at a high level. I don't want to have to wake up and be in traffic about an hour. I don't get to pick up my kids or see them in the morning, like. Those are all the things that employees are thinking about now, since they were able to do it for two years right, yeah, and knowing as a technical recruiter, because being a technical recruiter is highly competitive.
Speaker 1:So you gotta understand the motivations of the talent Like. You gotta understand that in order to relate to them, you gotta be able to relate to the people on the phone. You gotta be able to earn trust as a recruiter. You gotta earn trust from everybody because you have it's a unique role, because you have insights on everything that's going on in the company. You're talking to the hiring managers. You're knowing what type of person they're really looking for to fit their team, but also, especially if a technical recruiter, they're gonna give you insights on the technology and the products they're working on. So you know that you gotta have some sort of financial knowledge. You gotta know what the budget is. You gotta know what's going on financially internally in the company, but you also gotta understand what's going on out in the market financially. Cyber security's paying this, software development is paying this. So you gotta have both the quantitative data and the qualitative data. What I mean by quantitative? Actual reports, data, information, numbers. Typically the hiring managers and the internal stakeholders care a lot more about that. The qualitative is what people tell you on the candidates tell you on the phone A lot of information. If you're a good recruiter, your candidates will tell you what's going on. They'll tell you and then all you gotta do is look for trends. Okay, yeah, I talked to 15 techies today. 12 of them said this and they from all over the country. Then I can go pull up a LinkedIn insights report or something like that and then I can make correlations. So you gotta understand, like, even people in California, a lot of people from California are moving to Nevada or they're moving to Texas. If they're trying to go all the way from coast to coast, they'll move here to North Carolina, right, so understanding why they're doing that, yeah, you know. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Free tidbit for the companies. If y'all are listening right now, if y'all really wanna get some of these workers, since they not playing right at the student loans hey, hey, you work for us. We'll pay X amount of money your student loans, cause some companies are doing that now. So help pay the loans off. You'll get some people, cause don't nobody wanna pay the loans.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah for sure. And you even talked about certifications. I think that's a lot of times, like a lot of people don't think about that when they get an offer or they're negotiating Like hey, does your company have any programs set up for continued education? They might give a certain amount, they might have partnerships with companies like CompTIA or companies like the Linux Foundation, where their employees may not be free but you may get a significant discount. Like those are things to ask about. I don't think a lot of times that goes undiscovered a lot of times in those conversations.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would totally agree. Now I had like two questions to ask as well. Back to being about sourcing is about one how does someone become a sorcerer? And two I talked about this earlier what skills that you use in your basketball career are you using as a sorcerer now?
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, that's good. So there's no really. I mean, honestly, if you talk to a lot of sources and recruiters or people in talent acquisition, a lot of people just fell into it. Right, there's no degree, there's a human resources degree, but there's no talent acquisition, minor or field, right? So a lot of people just kind of fall into it. A lot of people just kind of transition. So I think, in order to do that, I think you have to again have great communication skills, both written and verbal, especially verbal. Great communication skills. I think you also need to be good at research and be a continued learner, because, especially if you're a technical recruiter, the industry is always changing and there's always a new technology every few years that's gonna change the landscape of the industry, right? Or there's new policies and procedures and regulations that change within human resources or even within the talent acquisition field that you need to know about and you need to be updated about. So, great communication, a good researcher, being willing to learn new things. Also, I think you have to have a really good ability to build relationships, because you're building relationships all around. You're building relationships with your hiring managers and internal stakeholders, but you're also building relationships with candidates. So being able to be a relator, also being able to, like I said, understand that, hey, I might not necessarily be a technologist myself, but understanding that I need to talk about it again. I can't stress this enough because I feel like this is where a lot of technical recruiters and technical sources fail not all of them, because I know plenty of good ones, but I think that's gonna be the differentiator To be able to get on a phone or go to a tech conference and be able to see a resume or be able to see somebody's profile and be able to ask them questions right and know what you're asking and kind of know what you're saying. I think that's the key thing, one of the things to answer the second part of that question, one of the things that helped me from transitioning from a college athlete to the corporate world or technical recruiting. If you're listening to this and you're a former, you're a current college athlete and you're looking at and you're about to transition to the corporate world, always keep your competitive edge. Always keep your competitive edge. Don't let anybody make you feel bad about that, because that's gonna keep you sharp right and competition is gonna be in your career, no matter what field you go into, you're gonna be competing against your peers. You're gonna be competing against other companies that are looking for the same talent or not even necessarily if you're a recruiter looking for the same kind of products or services. You're gonna be competing and oftentimes you're gonna be competing with yourself. Athletes, or great athletes they're always competing with themselves. They're trying to be better than they were last game. They're trying to be better than they were last season. So always keep your competitive edge. Also, continue to be coachable. Continue to be coachable. Obviously, you had to go through that. As an athlete, I had to go through that, but I had to make sure I sustained that mindset because, no matter I mean I'm principle level now and I've been a manager before where I've ran I've overseen recruiting processes for the US, canada and Brazil. I've had a lot of success, but I always remain coachable, no matter how successful you get in your career. Whether you're a tech recruiter or you're a cybersecurity analyst or software developer, or you're doing UI, ux, or if you're doing sales and marketing, it doesn't matter. No matter how successful you get, you're gonna need coaching at some point in your career eventually. So remain coachable. Also, being able to handle highs and lows, effectively Not getting too low in the low moments. Look at them as lessons but also not getting too cocky and too arrogant in the wins. You know what I mean, because being able to kind of stay grounded, I think those are things. Also hard work. Putting the work in. A lot of people. They see a lot of people like even like me, or even other people in the tech industry, even like yourself, who are highly successful, and you see us doing great things online and all of this and accomplishing a lot of things, but it's a lot of hard work that went into that behind the scenes and this is hard work. So, being able to put in the work. You might have to get up early and do some things. You might have to take on some extra projects to show and demonstrate your skills, abilities and value. So those are the things that I mean. There's so many other things, but those are one of the main things that I learned in my career from being an athlete.
Speaker 2:Okay, now I think I felt like this was a really good question to ask because I haven't dealt with many of you in my own career and I want to ask you, and maybe you get this sentiment of this question once. I ask it because, since you're a little older than me as well, and I said, are black male tech sources similar to black male teachers? Cause, you know, people don't have a lot of black male teachers, like, I think I got my first black male teacher when I was in eighth grade, in top math, yeah, and you know, actually I think there are studies about, like, how beneficial it is for males to be teachers, especially when it comes to, you know, girls and boys in the adolescent years. But as far as you, being a sorcerer, would you say there are more women sorcerers than there are men. And then, let alone when we get into the nuance between black women and black men when it comes to tech sourcing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I think what you said is important. I agree with that statement. You know, the HR industry as a whole really is more woman dominated, right, there are more women in HR, and talent acquisition and recruiting falls in HR, under that wing, under that umbrella. There's far more women in the human resources profession, right. So I think I take my role as a you know, even you know, in my career, being a senior level, principal level, technical recruiter and being a black one and then being a black man in this position, I take it very seriously and it's very important because, like you mentioned, you don't see that many of us. So I believe that you know, image is everything and visibility, especially for us, I think, is key because you don't see a lot of us, you know. You know it's interesting that you brought up the teacher kind of comparison. Black male teacher comparison is true, because you know you need to see examples of people actually doing it in your community. You know you need to see those examples and you need to see the good examples, the people that are actually successful, the people that are actually doing it right, you need to see those examples. So I think it's 100% a fair comparison, right. I think a lot of times where you know and we can go into a much deeper conversation about this but I think oftentimes the reason like you know, a lot of young, you know black people don't wanna get into professions like STEM, for instance, like science, technology, engineering, math, is because they quite literally haven't had any of those examples exposure early on, right, and you know everybody's not gonna be Drake, everybody's not gonna be Beyonce, everybody's not gonna be LeBron. It's not to say that you can't, it's not to say it's not possible, but understand that you can be one of the best black scientists in your city, you can be one of the sharpest software engineers in your town and you can still make a really good income and earn a really good living and have influence and be an example. And I think that's another reason why a lot of times we don't, as people, we don't gravitate to that. But I think, being a black male tech recruiter in an industry where black people are already underrepresented, I think it's key for people to see me and others like me who are doing the work as well. So 100% the imagery and the visibility matters. That's why I do the things that I do.
Speaker 2:Right same here. And when you said that, I instantly went to this quote from Steven A and I wanna read it off because I thought about this perfect, I wish I knew how to sound just like him. But he was saying for the Jay-Z's, lebron Shaxx and others I don't consider them the American dream. I consider me the American dream. You got a one-a-billion shot to be them, but you can be me. You can go to school, you can work hard and you can make it and be Steven A. And I agree 100%, I totally agree with that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100% man, you know, and I think, yeah, I think that quote he hit it right on here and I actually think I know what quote you're talking about and I know you just said it and I've heard that before. But absolutely, man, Like you know, I just wanna make sure that, as people you know in our youth that they understand there's more than one way to be valuable and impactful. Right, and I think that's one of the things I learned earlier. I knew if I was gonna make it to the NBA or not. I knew I was gonna make an impact. You know, I knew I was. It was just a matter of what and a matter of when. And you know, like me and you, we're no different man. Like you know other people coming up, they can be like us you know they can be better exposed earlier. Exactly, yeah, yeah, they need that exposure early and they need those examples earlier. That's why, you know, I try to make sure that I am visible. I try to make sure that I show people things, that I win, things, that I achieve, things, that I accomplish. It's not for clout, it's not to brag or boast, it's because I know there's somebody, a young black male or a young black woman, who was in the position I was back in 2008 with some of my career, and they need to see an example. They need to see that, they need to see a black male in the tech space doing well, right. And I think the black tech community is like unlike no other. Yeah, and it's important because they're not just me and you. There's others that are doing well and doing successful and I think they, if we talk to them, they will understand that like, yeah, I'm putting, I'm showcasing this so you can see that there are people that's possible and people are out here doing it right. So that's what it's all about at the end of the day, man, just making sure that you know we're seen and we're visible and we can be an example for other people coming up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I totally agree. Now I got a fun question for you real quick. All right, how would your parents describe your job?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would my parents describe my job. Oh, he get people jobs in the tech industry, that's all they. You get people jobs in the tech industry. He tell them what to do so they can get hired. Yeah, that's what they'll say.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they don't know how to subscribe me, they just think I know how to do all things computers and I'm like that could be far above the truth.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, Bobby, he get people jobs and that tech stuff. I don't know how he do it, but he do it. That's what they say.
Speaker 2:All right, so you answer this question already, so I'm gonna skip on. I'm gonna go to this next one and cause you kind of hinted at it and I guess we can just segue right back into it. So you're big on diversity, you know. Tell us what that means to you and, as a sorcerer, is that allowing you the opportunity to bring you know, bring in even more diverse types of candidates that wouldn't typically been caught if it wasn't for you. Yeah absolutely.
Speaker 1:I think what diversity means to me is, you know, when you're going into any situation or any company, organization, people wanna feel affirmed, right? People. When you go into any group right, if it's an organization, company, any group you're looking for. People look for these different pockets of affirmation. In certain ways, they're looking for somebody that they have some common interest with, somebody who they can identify with immediately. Right, and to me, that's what that's a key component with diversity, right, especially when you have, like, a company or an organization where you're providing a service and a product to a global audience, your, the world is diverse, so that the, so the people in your community, the people in your organization, the people in your company should be diverse as well, right, so diversity is not only it's also about different perspectives also, and getting different perspectives from people who come from different walks of life right, and I think that's key. I think that definitely helps as far as understanding the market, understanding the audience that you're trying to service, but I think that also gives it helps with productivity and creativity as well, because if everybody is saying the same thing all the time, then are you really kind of tapping into innovation of something? Are you really tapping into the most creative mindset of your team. Right, Because if somebody has a different perspective from a different walk of life, they'll be able to allow you to see some different things. Companies a lot of companies now are have, like diversity recruiting teams, teams that are just dedicated to diversity. My mantra is, you know, being somebody who, like I said, is a principal level, high level recruiter myself, but also somebody who's managed a team of recruiters Diversity recruiting is every recruiter's responsibility, right, you don't have to have the designation of diversity recruiter to care about diversity, you shouldn't, right? So a lot of companies are incentivized for that. Diverse populations and diverse talent within the organization. So I think that you know there's a lot of different ways to do that. Right, there's a lot of different organizations, like the organization that I'm a part of, right, that has a network and a community of people who are skilled, who are trained and who are ready to get hired or ready to transition and make a new move. So, being able to tap in those communities, being able to sit down and not only from a recruiting standpoint, from an internal standpoint, understanding the diversity and the perspectives and the challenges, the unique challenges of your current employees, that makes you a better employer to actually understand genuinely and intimately what somebody may go through when they're not in the office or when they're not working right. That just makes you a better, a more dynamic, more understanding person, but it'll make you a better leader and better company, so I'm fully in support of that. That's kind of what all that kind of means to me. One other thing that I will say, and I'm not gonna be too long on this topic, but this with the podcast. Yeah, I think one thing when I've worked with recruiting teams, I think it's important also to have a. I think one of the key things is when a candidate gets an interview process to, really it makes you have a diverse panel of interviewers throughout the process. Because, like I said, when somebody's looking to enter an organization or enter a company, that's one of the key things they're looking for who can I quickly identify with? Right, no matter what you know, no matter you know who you are or what you are like. Who can I quickly identify with, you know? So I'm all for having diverse interview panels that has a fair representation of multiple groups, because that diversity, equity, inclusion starts. It doesn't just start when somebody gets into the job, it quite literally starts when they're interviewing, right Before they even get an offer, if they get an offer or not. It's important to make sure that hey, you know, this is an inclusive panel, this is a diverse panel. So always make sure that I try my best to influence that as a senior level recruiter, for sure.
Speaker 2:I'm glad you said that, man, because I definitely agree with that last part. When it comes to that interview process back in 2018, when I got laid off and I was just interviewing at these different jobs, sometimes I felt like I was just being interviewed and sometimes I feel like they were gonna pick me anyway, because in a panel interview nobody looked like me. So I just felt like they just want to interview me to get me out of the way and give me a bogus excuse Like, not like, because think about some of the rejections I'd also don't like generic rejections, like if you bring me in for a panel, I really would expect, like, maybe will we a little bit more feedback to maybe even help me in my job search or what. But, for example, if you interview me and take me to the end and say, you know we decided to go with some more experience, I'm like, but you knew my experience before you interviewed me, I don't like that answer. You knew I didn't have experience doing this, like from the jump. So like, give just say like a better fit or something, but not the experience thing, because it wasn't the role didn't require that much experience. I hate that, but I think a lot of people feel like that. I had a guy in my live stream and I believe I Think I helped him with his resume before too and he was telling us about he's had interviewers say like racist things to him. Hmm, so those like are the the things that are scary? But it does also let you know you die as the bullet from certain companies.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was, you know, doubt I was, yeah, no doubt. And you know what, what I've seen in my career, you know, and I think there's there's efforts to try to first off, saying something racist in the interview is absolutely Wrong on every single level imaginable, right. But I think that's where it's really incumbent upon your recruiter and the, the, even the HR business partners, to make sure that to coach and educate the interviewers and the hiring team on unconscious bias as well, right, like you, could I mean something? I mean there's, there's people out there that just say mean things, just to say them, right, but then there's people out there that may be saying something inappropriate, but they might not be aware of it, you know. So I think there's a lot of work that that goes on, that should go on before that to, not only to. We talk a lot about coaching candidates a lot, right, and. But some interviewers need to be coached to, yeah, right, and unconscious bias, you know, and making sure that you know, hey, this is what this is, these are some examples of it and and try to find ways to navigate around that and not and not exemplify that in an interview, right, yeah, so I think, yeah, we talk a lot about. You know candidate, candidate coaching and things like that. But I know you know in my experience in companies I work with there was actually a lot of training that went into Unconscious bias. Now are there people that dropped the ball?
Speaker 2:Absolutely right, absolutely yeah. And then I would say also as a candidate, like my listeners know, they, they know I was very high on these couple of companies last year, strictly based off our interview process Microsoft, yahoo and I want to say, target. I used, of course, I used to work at Target, I want and retail through college, so I'm a little biased there, but those interview processes were great, the people they put to interview me were great. So, like you said, it starts an interview process. So where you would actually want to work for a company if you didn't get it at time, maybe you want to apply again just for the fact you experienced such a great interview process. Like my recruiter, hey, yahoo was phenomenal. I told the director and everybody say, yeah, she's amazing. She's like here's my number, you know if you need updates. Sometimes I got so many messages on LinkedIn or this or email. If you need me right away, please should be a text or call me, like those little things matter, because you do feel like you're a priority in this Interview process, because there are sometimes where you're trying to figure out, you know, am I still in the loop? That job, move on, what's going on? It's been three, four, five weeks, what is going on? Like I don't mind, you tell me no, just let me know so I could decide to move on because I like you guys. But you're not tell me enough. And Then every step of the way, if you just saying you know they made decision, you're really. I'm still getting really good Hyrule marks on you. So we're just having to find out when everybody's skills are worse so we can do the next round of interviews. Cool, that goes a long way with a candidate making them feel like their priority. So I agree with you, man. I definitely a talent attraction is that.
Speaker 1:That's that's the job is talent attraction. You should be doing everything possible to attract talent, right? Not repel talent, right. Right, and you know word of mouth is the best marketing tool, you know. Think about it like Recruiters talk to each other, but candidates talk to each other to oh man, I interviewed at this company, man, it was bad, don't even mess with them. So, like, you want to make sure you have a great candidate experience, right, and that that's really important. If the person gets selected for the role or not, you know, it's just. It's just just just courtesy, right, because, like you said, you know you, you have, you have stories that you remember of a great experience, right, so that goes a long way. You know if the person, you know if they select the person or not, you're just gonna have a. You just want to have a good candidate experience and, like I've always said, your recruiter, the primary recruiter that you working with, should be an advocate for you. They should be really your best friend, really, through the whole process. Yeah, you're gonna talk to other people, but your, your, your tech recruiter should be advocate for you. They should be your best friend through the whole process. They should be. One of the one of the key things that a recruiter can do to influence the candidate experience in the most positive way is Constant communication. Even when you don't have an update, let them know you don't have an update and and I'm working hard on getting you an update and like and say, hey, you know the higher man and tell him why the higher man is on vacation, you know. Or you know something like let them know. Like, hey, I just want to email you and let you know. Or I just want to give you a call that you know. I've been trying to get an update for you. I have not been able to get update. I'm still working on it. Once I know something, I'll let you know. It's just a communication piece, yeah totally agree, totally agree.
Speaker 2:But now I want to ask you real quick about you being and you told me earlier, so I don't want to mess it up you are the chairman. Chapter president. Chapter president. I knew someone's list. I'm gonna see you chapter president Black and taken rightly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yes, so I'm the the chapter president for the Raleigh Durham region. For a blacks in technology, yep.
Speaker 2:Yeah, two of my clients went to the I believe that event you guys put on like a couple weeks ago. I believe that was you right.
Speaker 1:What would event we? They have a lot of events.
Speaker 2:We have a lot of events in the I don't know which one it was, but two of them never went. Could you share it on your page? And I shared it with them because I know they were in the area and they actually got to meet each other, oh, I know what you talking about.
Speaker 1:You talking about the cyber security summit. Yeah, was that y'all right? Yeah, okay, yeah, cyber security summit, yes, so we have partnered with CompTIA To make sure that you know, at least in the Raleigh Durham area and I think they're doing this in other cities too so we partnered with CompTIA to get people 100% discount codes For our blacks and technology members in the Raleigh Durham area and just also just a broader community. So, yeah, so that was on. That was a really good partnership that we forged. I met a lot of people there that that utilized that discount code. So that was just good to see too, man, you know, to see, you know brothers and sisters there that we're able to go for free and get and get the knowledge and get some, you know, some credentials and things like that. So that was super dope.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, it's good that you guys are doing that, because the one thing I try to remind people about this whole journey of them getting into tech or whatever, is the fact that everybody is fortunate to have money at the disposal to pay To 300, 400, 500 dollars to take these certifications. I told them years ago, when I feel one of these tests, I was like I had to get a loan from somebody to pay the 500 dollars to take the CEH that I feel, and I was like everybody, you got a remorse, I tried. That's why, when you say not to get too low, not to get too high, I don't let what I have going on my career or what I'm trying to achieve or what I'm achieving, take me away from coming from my background, of being come from a blue collar family on my coma, where I knew where I was at one point and that's why I'm able to relate to people so much. So I was like Everybody just don't have money to throw out, like that it's not that that's simple, and it's sometimes not the best advice for them to just go put money into that when they could possibly buy a Cheaper course that may give them more skills than going to get the certification.
Speaker 1:Yeah so that's cool, that's just yeah, and just to speak on that. So one of the one of the key things about the blacks and technology group. So, first off, we're global. Right, so we have close to 80 chapters in 20 countries. So that means, you know, let's talk about just here in the US. That means in almost every major city in the US there's a chapter, probably near you. Right, so we're all about increasing the representation of black people in the tech industry. Right, our mantra, our mission, is stopping the divide. Right, so we do that in a number of different ways. Right, we partner with other organizations, companies, to provide, you know, career support to our members. Right, so we do that. We also have, like, networking mixers and networking events where people can come and mix and mingle amongst themselves. Right, in a Low pressure environment. Right, so we want to get people in the room to talk to each other so they can make those connections. But we also want we want to make sure that we are, you know, community focused also and that we bring attention to things that our community, the tech, the black tech community, may be Concerned about or things that they need. Right, so the key thing about being a member we're blacks and technologies. First off, membership is free. Right, so we want to keep the barrier entry Low, as low as possible, and you were talking about like certifications and things like that. So, first off, the membership is free. But also, once you get into the membership portal, there's so many boot camps, certifications, courses that you can take that are Significant discount. Some of them are free. I think that's like a that's our product manager boot camp that would have cost you, if you're a nonmember, five thousand dollars. I think that was the value, but for us you get it for free and these are like no joke certifications.
Speaker 2:You talk about the Linux.
Speaker 1:Foundation partner with them, cop, tia, aws certifications, google certifications, like you name it, right. So you know, and I look through, we just had a general body meeting and we were kind of going through this with our members. A lot of this stuff is like huge discounts, you know. So now everything is free and these are like legit, legitimate, like you know, certifications and boot camps, right? Another thing to if you're a Black entrepreneur, we have an acceleration program and we also have other services and resources for Black entrepreneurs in the tech space where you could, you know, increase your chances of getting grant money and getting backing for your, for your company. So we do, we do a lot of work, so and my job here as our chapter president in the Raleigh, durham regions to make sure that we're doing that right. So we have a slew of events Coming up. I mean, we're already thinking about 2024. That's just how, how busy we are. So that's, that's a bit about everything you know. If you, I would encourage people watching this. Whatever city you in the US, I promise you there's probably a chapter close to you, so get involved, find out who the chapter president is in that area and I'm pretty sure they're gonna be doing something, some sort of networking events, some sort of tech talk, working with some company to get you, get you all in so you can have exposure to these recruiters.
Speaker 2:Nice, nice. I definitely think I that I sign up for for this Dallas area. I can't remember, I'm gonna go look at it. I went to mixer event that the people of mixer cloud has been putting on in Houston and Dallas like every month, like this is like Hi, since I was the beginning of the year, like March or something like that, so that was pretty cool. A lot of black professionals I got to meet Thursday. But Now this is this the fun stuff. Guys, if you made it this far, we're gonna try to give you a couple of gyms to help you. I'll out so for the job searches out there. What do you like to see on a technical resume?
Speaker 1:hmm, Great question. So For the resume, right, first off, I'm just gonna let, before we even get to like all the intricate details, stuff, the format is everything. Like I always say, the format, the having a good format, helps your resume be more readable. Right, I compare like anybody who's done like any like, like sessions with me always can compare the resume to like the human body, right, so your spine, right like you think about your spine, right like your backbone, that like sets the tone for your posture. Yeah well, having good format on your resume is quite literally the posture of your resume. So it helps it flow well from top to bottom. So it it makes it more readable. There's a study and this has been a thing that's been, you know, kind of really brought to the forefront from for recruiters, something that we do in mass and this has been set for years that a Resume like when somebody's looking at a resume or high manner, they spend probably about six to ten seconds Looking at your resume. Yep, and if I can, so that first ten, six to ten seconds, I'm gonna dive deeper into this because I don't think a lot of people really understand that first six to ten seconds Really they look at for it to be readable and if you've got stuff all over the place it's not formatted well, it's like, ah, that's already a turn off. So having a good format, because at first six to 10 seconds they're looking for, they're looking for format, and while they're doing that they're looking for certain keywords. So that's number one having good format. Two, having technical skills on your resume that you can demonstrate in an assessment. I've said this before, I say it again anything that you put in your resume, especially when it comes to technical skills, anything that you put in your resume is fair game for questioning, can and will be assessed. So don't put things on your resume that you just kind of like technical skills that you kind of dabble in, especially if it's directly correlated and unrelated to the job. So have skills on there that you can demonstrate in an assessment with minimal or no supervision, at least at a moderate level. You ain't got to be perfect at it, but you can do it on your own and you can do some work. So that's another thing we want to see. I want to see work history. I always tell people try to focus on your most relevant jobs to the job, to the role that you're seeking and I'll probably want, like really for recruiters and hiring managers really only focus on the most recent, maybe seven to 10 years. So make sure you have the most relevant things on your resume at the top, especially with the experience. It's recent and then as I go down, it needs to take me back in the past. So I need your most recent at the top and then it needs to go down from like things you've done before. Always say focus on more, so on impact versus job duties and responsibilities, especially in the tech world. It's just in general.
Speaker 2:A lot of big mistake people make is you'll put what your job description was Like hey, listen, I was just about to say that man and I have a video that I did on resume mistakes. I used to make my own resume showing. I said this is why I wasn't getting hit up. I was like a lot of this stuff I just took from the job I applied to would do it on there, because back then I didn't know how to show the value of what I was doing at work and nobody's act. To be honest, I had like a resume class and like business communications and college, but it wasn't geared towards a technical role. No one was out there, like the information was kind of gate, kept them like how to like really have a legit resume back then and fixing it. So I'm glad you said that, because I've seen that sometimes. So I said you just put the job description on here, I can tell.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and you can tell like they, just like you know we, those are kind of like the bullet points, those like you're stating the obvious. What's going to get me excited about your resume as a recruiter is data information. I didn't know how you made an impact metrics. You know, like I need to know how you performed against your metrics. I need to know if you met your metrics. I need to know if you made something better while you was there. Did you increase something by 25%? Did you? Did you, um, save the company time? Did you save the company money? And a reason why a lot of people and I actually had a video about this on LinkedIn but a reason why a lot of people don't end up putting those things on there because they don't count their wins and then previous jobs. Like anytime you get a performance review and it's solid. Anytime you get kudos from a, from a, a lead or a manager, you need to be taking that. You need to be sending that to your personal email. You need to be dropping all your wins in a photo. So when it comes time to update your resume, when you start like looking for that new role, you can just pull from that. Yeah, you can put it in your resume. So we look, we're looking for impact, because that's the things that's going to get me excited and want to talk to you on the phone, and then that's also going to be the things that's going to get the hiring managers excited. Oh, they did this. Oh man, I'm going to talk to them, let's bring them in. So if you just got basic, bland job duties on your resume, it's not going on. The balance of the probability is not going to get you far, yeah.
Speaker 2:I totally agree with that, especially like I tell people now, like when I'm coaching clients, I'm like, hey, because it is hard sometimes when I say, hey, what things that you accomplished at any of your jobs, I need them so I can add them on the resume. Sometimes I get some stuff and sometimes I don't, and I just have to finesse and figure out how we can dress something up. They did ask an accomplishment but I tell them, hey, from here on forward, everything you do, whether big or small, just write it down yeah, just have it in your one note Achievements and write it down yeah. And also, I know, like some people do real struggle with sometimes the metrics part two, because depending on like, for example, my role, like sock and IR, sometimes we don't know what our work does directly on the like reflect, like on the quarterly or monthly report. So sometimes you don't know that. But there are different ways to state your impact. Like now I don't know exactly what maturity level I helped them do. But like one of my chief like I don't have a summary. I have, like this career achievement section. It's just like some bullet points, career achievements on my resume, and one of the things I said is like how I helped one of my companies. We went from a maturity level of like zero to maturity level of three. So I just like I could do that at any organization. If y'all need like y'all y'all sock to be better, like I'm the guy because I did it before, I could do it again. So those are ways you can kind of view, not imagination, but if you can try to research and just know different things about maturity modules and I think I took that away too, because I did do grad school we had things where we're talking about like maturity models and getting people to buy in all these other things that was one of the ways I was able to dress it up. That's like we came a long way. So I don't know if we are three or four, but I'm just going to say a three on the bright side. Maybe I go back and change it to a four, but that was pretty cool, man. Now, this probably is a fun one, because I was talking to a shout out to my God of job father. We were talking about this other day Do's and don'ts when networking on LinkedIn.
Speaker 1:Oh, man, yeah, this is going to be a fun one, right, okay, so the first thing I'm going to say is do not send really long messages. Like please don't do that, like it's just too long. Like don't send long messages because our days, like recruiting, like recruiters of their jobs, are fast paced. Our days are fast paced. I mean, even if you send it to a hiring manager or a senior director. Right, the days are fast paced, they have a lot of demand. We kind of just want to just like get the information real quick, you know. So, definitely, don't send a long message, just kind of get to the point. Also, have some respect and say hello. I know that's real basic and it's probably like okay, why does that need to be said? But I'm telling you, like a lot of, even with, like, my recruiter peers and my recruiter friends that I respect, that I vouch for, we all, consistently across the industry, say the same thing, like you just throwing your resume, hey, take a look at this, I need a job. Thanks, it's just really rude. Say good morning, say good morning Bobby, say hello Bobby, how are you? You know, start off with that and then like get to the point and make the ask Is it okay if I send you my resume? Right, is it okay if I said you know 10 minutes with you just to have a coffee chat to learn a little bit more about the company? Right, make the ask, because what mama always say, close mouth don't get fed Bingo. So if you don't ask for what you want, chances are you might not get it, and the person that's in that DM or that inbox next that made the ask, they might get it. You know, because sometimes I don't know people like hey, happy to connect. I'm like, okay, cool, I'm just gonna hit the like button.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Sometimes I just do that little auto thing when they send me some sometimes, but I'll buy circle back if they send me something worth Wow. And I agree with you Like, even if they're taking a step further, like this morning I sent, I said good morning and I let you know hey, I sent these questions. You know I could have just hey, I sent the questions this morning, but I was like, man, it's the morning time, Good morning, I sent the questions to you, man. So it does? It's just small exchanges of respect Like. I have people now like never had a conversation with me sometimes and they know what I do, so they'll decide to send me a resume. Now sometimes I may look at, sometimes I'm not in some of the major's ignored because I was like I don't know, you just sent me this. I'm very busy, so I don't really have time to even stop and answer this. I got plenty of links on here where you can probably just get the schedule sometime or just have a conversation with me. But I also like you though, like I'm so busy I don't care for, even like personally, but I don't care for a lot of small talk just because it's too much small talk, like, get to what you need to ask me. That's why, with clients, we have concise little scripts we will send to recruiters because, hey, they're busy and hopefully they see it. It's like, boom, hey, how you doing? I'm interested in this role at this company. I plopped through this role. Here's the rec. Do you think you can help me out or be able to point me to whoever can help me out with this one? You know, have a good day. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you know a lot of recruiters there say, hey, yeah, I can help you and you know and send you on. Or maybe they are the recruiter for this. Like because that's what we're going to say all the time. Like just please be concise with me, because I don't have time to go back and forth and say hey and all this other stuff from these one line or messages, like it's a lot. Man, I see your inboxes. That's like. If I can find your emails, I tend to email yeah.
Speaker 1:That's another thing too. Like, if you, if you got a really like, really dope, really cool recruiter or recruiter that's really engaged out there recruiter got a really good reputation, make no mistake about it. They're LinkedIn inbox going to be lit. It's going to be on fire If you can find an email address and then typically recruiter I think they should have they should have their email address somewhere on their profile. If you can find an email address, send it there because you might have a more of an increased probability of getting a response from them from there. Because, yeah, we live on LinkedIn. But let me tell you, our company inbox. We definitely prioritize that because we might be looking for feedback from a hiring manager. Within there. We may be looking for feedback from somebody else or we may be looking for, like you know, information about to set up a candidate interview. So, like, if you like, try to find the recruiter's email, their work email, and send and maybe send a message there. That'll increase your chances. But you know the kind of answer your question you know about LinkedIn. Another thing too, we talked about, like not having long messages. But here's what I also say man, like you know, we talked about, we touched on this a little bit when we were talking about NIL. We live in the digital age now. Our parents and our grandparents grew up in an industrial age. It wasn't important to have, like, some social media presence or have a LinkedIn or online presence, right? So because we live in a digital age, your digital footprint is everything. You have a brand, if you want one or not. Just by being on social media, just by being a professional LinkedIn, you automatically got one, if you want to accept that or not. So, with that being said, you have to find ways to engage and I think a lot of times is the problem is people don't engage. Forbes put out a article recently that I actually posted on Instagram. I should post it on LinkedIn because I think it'll help bless some people. But I think they said 71% of recruiters, hire managers, employers, will go to a social media site, primarily LinkedIn. Right For that man. I've been in numerous interview sessions, resume review sessions and let me tell you something A lot of times they'll see your LinkedIn before they see your resume. Yep, and not having an optimized LinkedIn profile, not having a LinkedIn profile and not having a LinkedIn profile that's put together, to me is just as ineffective as not even having a resume. So that's key have your information on your LinkedIn about your experience, have it on there about your skills, right, but also how to stay engaged, especially if you got like a really, like I said, really popular, really engaged recruiter on LinkedIn. Find, make a list of like 10 to 15 recruiters that seem to be respected and trusted by people and even take a step further like, maybe like career coaches or even hiring managers, and always like their stuff. This is real easy Always like their stuff, always comment on their stuff, set up notifications. So when Bobby McNeil posts something or when Henry posts something, set it up and always like their stuff, always like their stuff, always comment, always start some sort of conversation. Because the more and this even applies to even outside of career because the more times you see somebody like your stuff, you subconsciously start feeling like you know them right. The same 50 people. I know the same 50 people, no matter what I post on LinkedIn, the same 50 people gonna like my stuff. So if they slide in my DMs asking about a job posting or position or ask for advice, I'm subconsciously gonna prioritize them because I've seen their name all the time and they engage and interact with me. That's a kind of a way to stay engaged and stay connected and network with people. On LinkedIn. It's always like this stuff. Even on Instagram, I know the same 50 to 60 people gonna like my stuff regardless. Yeah, man.
Speaker 2:I was gonna actually talk about that too, because I think I said this on LinkedIn before. It's like people forget the aspect of being social, because social media, so being social, speak like comment, share, repost, all that stuff works Even for me, like you know. Think about how me and you got here. You know, communicating on the timeline or, like I do it on Instagram, linkedin, tiktok. Sometimes I might not just reach out to you, because sometimes you might not even know who I am, but if I come in on us for being had a couple of conversations, you got to see my content when you clicked on my page, or vice versa, and then I finally shoot you a message. You know, yeah, because it's like that it is, people are so busy. Then, when they meet you in person, like oh yeah, you're so-and-so, like it happens all the time. So don't give up the fight, don't think people are far from moving. We see who likes a lot of things, like I know I do. I tell people all the time too, with building your brand with me. I say, please send me a note when you connect with me, and it's not because I don't want to accept everybody, but I don't want to accept everybody because I don't want to see all that on my timeline. But I'm talking about if you simply say, hey, how are you doing? I'm interested in cybersecurity, or I like your content. I don't care what you say. Most of the time I set the note, unless you're sending me a note telling me why you're interested in certifications. That's probably the only time I probably hit an X on you.
Speaker 1:Yeah for sure. And like to your audience. I mean, we're practicing what we preach in, like I started liking your stuff and commenting and you started liking my stuff and commenting because it was reciprocated. And then here we are today. You can apply that same theory that was on Instagram. You can apply that same theory in LinkedIn with recruiters and people of influence and people who have jobs for hire. You can do the same thing and I promise you they will sub consciously in their mind like oh yeah, I know this, I've even done it and I know other people have done. Oh yeah, I know this. But they always comment on everything, so you might get VIP treatment in the DMs just by engaging consistently.
Speaker 2:That's what the fellas be trying to do with the women when they try to shoot face shots. They then went through and like five pictures from five years ago, sending the best, use those same tactics.
Speaker 1:You're looking for a job networking with.
Speaker 2:LinkedIn with recruiters, right? No, that's the funny thing too, even if we take it out of recruiters, just regular people, because one of the things I have clients who say, okay, boom, so you know you want to do this, but maybe we have a skills gap here. Let's get a list of you know, like you said, 15, 10 people. Let's find them, let's interact with them, let's reach out to them and see if they got some time to spare to actually help you out. Maybe they can show you some projects or some things you can do so you can add to your resume so you'd be a more attractive candidate. I'll tell you all the time I'm a broken record, but some of the things are simple. Now. Everybody don't want to do the execution though, just like you was talking when you came from playing ball. Yeah, we know it's not super hard to shoot the ball. You're working on your mid-range, but have me mid-range, as you're going to shoot a day, to make sure you can at least make most of them in the game count. Some people only going to shoot 50. Then you got the people that shoot 500.
Speaker 1:There's a numbers game 100%. The more shots you put up, the better you're going to be, the more makes you going to get. The more you engage and network virtually, the more you increase your chances of connection. So absolutely I agree, bingo.
Speaker 2:So I want to ask you this Well, actually not ask you, but I guess you could say ask it's still a question. Technically, what would be three things you want to leave the audience with today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think first thing I would say is that if you want to do something, do it. If you want to start the business, start the business. If you want to start the podcast, start the podcast. If you want to go back to school, you want to do the boot camp, do it. If that passion is in you to do it, do it. I don't like to say life is short, because I think that's kind of like it's very finite. I like to say life is precious. You know what I mean. And time flies, yeah, and if it's been on your mind and heart and spirit for the last six to nine months, one year, to do something, go ahead and do it. And that's the first thing I would say because, like I said, time flies and you know you're going to look up and six months and then went by and you still, you still talking about the same thing. I want to do this, I want to do that, go do it, go do it. The second thing I would say is you can't be, you can't be afraid that, you can't be afraid to fail. And I don't like, really like, seeing the word failure because but I'm just for the sake of this you can't be afraid to fail. I wish a lot, I wish more of us were outcome independent. What I mean by that is that I'd rather here's my thing I'd rather you try and it not work out into you not try and always wonder if it would have worked out. Shoot your shot, try it, show up, see what happens. Yeah, you know. So that's the thing, like, don't be afraid to fail, like be the outcome independent. You know, don't be, don't be worried about, don't be dependent of the outcome. Do it and try it and know where it was and know where you ended up, so you don't ever have to have any regrets when it's all said and done. Me personally, like I said, I rather try and it not work out. Then to be up late at night scratching my head can't sleep one like man. I wonder if I would have tried it or done it would have worked out. So that's that. That's that one thing I think. The second thing is that there's a lot of the third thing there's a lot of conversation about interviews and resumes and and and LinkedIn, and that's important. It is important. It's important to have optimized LinkedIn. It's important to have do all the engagement tactics and things like that. It's important to have a great resume. That's important, it's imperative. It's important to know how to interview. Well, right, I thought. But you got a network and somebody said this on, I forget who it was but life happens offline and virtual networking Great, we just talked about. It is great. But get up and go to a conference. If it ain't a big conference, find a. Find a networking event in your city. It ain't got to be the most biggest elaborate of networking event, but you got to go. So you got a network right. You got to get out there and shake people's hands right and build some rapport with people, especially now, like now that we coming off the you know the pandemic and what that was, a lot of people just kind of got cool and comfortable with just kind of just like just staying in right, I would, I would encourage people now that things are kind of like a lot more open and conferences and networking events and mixers are back, you know, back and consistent and prevalent. Now Life happens offline. Go network, go build some relationships, you know, because a lot of people like, oh yeah, like I'm not, I'm not finding any jobs, or like, okay, are you networking what networking does when you go to these mixers, these networking events, these are meetups or these conferences. It removes the screen, it removes the ATS and you get a chance to shake somebody hand and say, hey, my name is such and such, I'm a cybersecurity analyst, I'm a product manager at this place. I, you know, I'm interested in talking to you about my skills and they'll talk to you. That's what everybody's there to talk. So it at least. It doesn't guarantee you a job, but it would at least remove some of the some of these virtual barriers that you may be experiencing, where you apply for a job and you don't hear nothing back and then you get a rejection notice six weeks from now. So it doesn't have to be a big conference. It could be something. Start small, it could be a small event or something like the Indian City and go and make some relationships. One of the things I wish I would have known earlier in my life, that I started to learn later in life, that is that relationships and network and community and connections matter. A lot of the blessings and a lot of the opportunities. A lot of people see me online. I say yo, bob, you killing, fantastic, wonderful, and I'm grateful for it and I'm humble about it. But I'm telling you, a lot of the opportunities I got and a lot of even my current job I got is because I was networking and it wasn't necessarily what I knew or who I knew was who knew me. There you go, Nobody's going to know you if you just sitting in the house. You got to go network. So I know that was a lot, but no, no you was on it.
Speaker 2:You was on it. That's exactly what I told them about when I went to Afro Tech last year and I was like nothing beats in person networking Nothing. You can feel somebody's real vibe and they're more inclined. It's just the energy of it, and that's why I'm trying to move to more in person podcasts as well. But how does the audience stay in contact with you if they want to connect with you on social media?
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely so. My LinkedIn you just put in Bobby McNeil, I'm there. You can also find me with my hashtag hashtag Bobby the Builder, so you can find that. Anything I post, you'll get access to that. So definitely find me there. I post a lot, you know, like things about interview tips, advice, you know, job opportunities, et cetera, so you can definitely find me there. Also, instagram you just put in Bobby McNeil Jr. Definitely follow me there, because I post a lot of stuff there also and I'm getting ready to start putting out like some video content and things like that, as far as like career tips and things like that and really getting involved in that way. Also, you can follow me on Twitter, bobby the Builder. That's actually something I just got started doing, so you can find me there as well. But those are the main three.
Speaker 2:Man, that's dope man. It's been a great episode. I appreciate you for rocking with us today. And look, like I told you in the beginning, you know, hopefully we got a fish Friday night See my boy boogeyman but come through with the victory either way, I'm just happy. We're getting a good fight. We've been getting a lot of good fights this year, but as I always stay, until next time, let's stay textual. I should boy HD and we are
